Great article in The Times

[CopperBeech]

Some great replies lads and lasses. Thanks so much for the support and the chance to vent a bit.

I personally think this is all part of the same thing - they do not want us in the countryside, they do not want livestock. they want an eco ‘solution’ which is popularist and easily understood which does not mean any changes to urban life styles or large buisness.

They want the serfs to live in the city in little boxes, while the ‘urban elite’ get to live in the nice pretty countryside ..... and have it as one large pleasure park.

You’ve also got to remember that this isn’t all about getting money from the government. People will drive their big 4x4s from town to go and see the “wild lands” they will eat in the cafe, buy souvenirs, pay for parking etc etc

And most importantly certain celebs, rich folk and extremist zealots ..... will get a publicity boost, great Instagram photos and the ability to be seen as the saviour. It’s the new equivalent of adopting a child from Africa ......

 

[Cowcorn]

Some great replies lads and lasses. Thanks so much for the support and the chance to vent a bit.

I personally think this is all part of the same thing - they do not want us in the countryside, they do not want livestock. they want an eco ‘solution’ which is popularist and easily understood which does not mean any changes to urban life styles or large buisness.

They want the serfs to live in the city in little boxes, while the ‘urban elite’ get to live in the nice pretty countryside ..... and have it as one large pleasure park.

You’ve also got to remember that this isn’t all about getting money from the government. People will drive their big 4x4s from town to go and see the “wild lands” they will eat in the cafe, buy souvenirs, pay for parking etc etc

And most importantly certain celebs, rich folk and extremist zealots ..... will get a publicity boost, great Instagram photos and the ability to be seen as the saviour. It’s the new equivalent of adopting a child from Africa ......

Really sorry for your trouble @CopperBeech and hope things work out for you ..
The life of the Conacre man or grazier is not for the faint hearted ..
My family started out landless and over 3 generations put together the various bits of land we no own .. My Grandfather used to say he grew crops and owned machines rather than livestock because if he was turfed out of land then it just meant his machine worked a little less ,he wouldnt be running to sell his stock at maybe bad money .. My father always said dont ever rely on " short " land for your milkers for the same reason ..
The went through some really rough times paying for land and im grateful to them for what i have today but renters were what we came from and my sympathy will always be with the tenants .
The cfa tax dodge will eventually be overhauled and the iht relief will also come under scrutiny and maybe just maybe the renters day will come again .

 

[Ffermer Bach]

Don’t take offence...... you just made a pointless comment looking for a rise, got one and didn’t like it. I fully accept your point about land value and following the money. But this is a much more far reaching worry, further reaching than my irritation at my life being destroyed. This is a massive con which is all about self promotion and image. One which is going to damage the rural culture and community.

Let’s face it we aren’t wanted in the countryside, they want no farmers, keepers, hunters. They want it to be a lovely country park where they can walk fluffy the cockerpoo on a harness and maybe see a beaver. Then go home to their nice big rural house with horse paddocks called “somethingorother farm”, “keepers cottage” or “huntsmans lodge”, get Alexa to run them a bath and do the lights and tuck in to imported food. No inconvenient livestock in the way, and no smelly farmers.

unfortunately I think you are right

 

[CopperBeech]

unfortunately I think you are right

Sadly . . . . yes.

And if its not got to anyones area . . . . . its coming . . . . . its spreading west.

 

[Ffermer Bach]

Sadly . . . . yes.

And if its not got to anyones area . . . . . its coming . . . . . its spreading west.

we have farms being bought to plant with trees here in Carmarthenshire

 

[CopperBeech]

we have farms being bought to plant with trees here in Carmarthenshire

Cwrt y cadno is a particularly interesting situation.

 

[Ffermer Bach]

Cwrt y cadno is a particularly interesting situation.

I know, it makes me so annoyed, emailed my assembly member about it

 

[CopperBeech]

I know, it makes me so annoyed, emailed my assembly member about it

we are all getting sold out, so the elite and big buisness can carry on f**king the planet whilst telling people they are saving it. Insane. And apparently there is nothing we can do because everything is for sale for a price, even our culture and future.

 

[Red Fred]

Sadly . . . . yes.

And if its not got to anyones area . . . . . its coming . . . . . its spreading west.

Our estate evicted all the graziers from the fbt land over the last couple of years after the agreements came up. I lost 100 acres out of 300 I have had for over 30 years as they couldn't take back my aha land, but I think they were hoping to make the rest unviable too.
The aim was to put all this grassland into a scheme by pulling out the fences and letting it go, so that the owner could enjoy his snipe shooting.
As it was, a few weeks before I had to be out, their agent turned up to see if I would have it back since they suddenly realised it would need to be kept tidy, but as they wanted twice the former rent for no security, no payments and no fences, I had to decline their offer. I had already sold off a large chunk of the cows anyway by then, so I had nothing left to graze it.

 

[ajcc]

Tractor driver, tenant farmer, contract farmer, farm manager, they're all the same really, just employees of the land owner, its just the way they're "paid" that varies.

Never appreciated above quote but it’s also about degrees of security and a grazier has no little to no protection.
Tough times, what doesn’t kill you makes you stronger...If you have to sell sheep, you have best timing in last 50 years,

 

[kiwi pom]

Never appreciated above quote but it’s also about degrees of security and a grazier has no little to no protection.
Tough times, what doesn’t kill you makes you stronger...If you have to sell sheep, you have best timing in last 50 years,

Yeah the grazier is probably at the bottom of the pile when it comes to security, even worse than a zero hour contract employee, at least they don't have a fortune invested.
One of the risks of wanting to work for yourself I guess.

 

[DaveGrohl]

Can't even believe as a country we have got to the point where the gov are encouraging the place to go to s##t wtf is that all about its just mental , import food and let your own ground go to rack n ruin

This is what we need to attack as an industry. The wholesale exporting of our carbon footprint is absolutely fekking scandalous. There is absolutely NO defence possible for this, it’s unarguable. The idiots can bang on all they like about fluffy wildlife and all of that bollox but they have no answer when exposed to awkward questions about exporting our carbon footprint. It’s a fekking open goal FFS.

 

[neilo]

Yeah the grazier is probably at the bottom of the pile when it comes to security, even worse than a zero hour contract employee, at least they don't have a fortune invested.
One of the risks of wanting to work for yourself I guess.

I know of several graziers of about 1000 ewes that packed up after 2001. Not because of the prices, they could whether that storm with difficulty, but from the forced loss of access to ground. Most were eventually replaced by a younger crop of enthusiastic new entrants, who will unfortunately see the cycle repeat.

 

[primmiemoo]

The conservatives in the 80’s were proper conservatives. Under Cameron they shifted to the centre ground. Now under Boris they’ve gone centre left.

Under Johnson incontinence, they've gone 18th Century! Laissez-faire, devil takes the hindmost, the lot. Thatcher regretted adoption of free market principles into her government towards the end.

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

I personally think this is all part of the same thing - which does not mean any changes to urban life styles or large buisness.

Spot on.


Sadly.

 

[Ffermer Bach]

This is what we need to attack as an industry. The wholesale exporting of our carbon footprint is absolutely fekking scandalous. There is absolutely NO defence possible for this, it’s unarguable. The idiots can bang on all they like about fluffy wildlife and all of that bollox but they have no answer when exposed to awkward questions about exporting our carbon footprint. It’s a fekking open goal FFS.

Am I right in thinking, when we import it, the carbon costs are accounted against the country producing the food, so the country buying the food gets food with zero carbon costs? The fact that for the world there are greater carbon costs, plus insecurity of supplies is neither here nor there for the politicians who want to crow about how they are cutting our emissions and making us zero carbon.

 

[CopperBeech]

One thing that I feel is important to say here because there is a risk that I am just coming across as a petulant child.

But ..... I have always accepted that “survival is not mandatory”, I do not have a good given right to farm.

However...... I’ve worked hard and smart and made some major sacrifices to build what I have... a successful and functioning business model where I make profit out of farming and have built a good asset base. I also provide local employment and am a part of the local community.

We farm in a forward thinking, holistic and regenerative manner, creating some amazing habitats for wildlife and producing food in conjunction with nature.

If this isn’t good enough to survive I suppose I could accept that, if maybe I was being replaced by another farming model that was better than mine, or had a greater positive environmental impact.

But it kind of sucks to be one of the many who’s life, business and means to feed our population is wrecked on the whim of a 36 year old model who had bought a farm with Chinese (money laundering ) money (which she got given to hush her up as the fling of a Chinese triad) , who has surrounded herself with extremist zealots and is now being backed and given more funding by the British government.

Oh, that, and as I’ve said I genuinely believe this is all a related ploy. Remember they said they wanted to end animal ag in the UK in the next 20 years .......

 

[DaveGrohl]

Am I right in thinking, when we import it, the carbon costs are accounted against the country producing the food, so the country buying the food gets food with zero carbon costs? The fact that for the world there are greater carbon costs, plus insecurity of supplies is neither here nor there for the politicians who want to crow about how they are cutting our emissions and making us zero carbon.

I’m pretty sure you’re correct, and it’s absolutely beyond idiotic. It’s the reason Drax is able to operate isn’t it?

This is a video that I was primarily interested in because of Prof Myles Allen’s brief talk, but Prof Dieter Helm gives a very interesting talk at around 28 mins about precisely the issue of exporting our carbon footprint. He wrote the Govt’s cost of energy review so no lightweight. Sounds like he’s about to give farmers a kicking when he first starts but it doesn’t end up like that.

 

[DaveGrohl]

I’m pretty sure you’re correct, and it’s absolutely beyond idiotic. It’s the reason Drax is able to operate isn’t it?

This is a video that I was primarily interested in because of Prof Myles Allen’s brief talk, but Prof Dieter Helm gives a very interesting talk at around 28 mins about precisely the issue of exporting our carbon footprint. He wrote the Govt’s cost of energy review so no lightweight. Sounds like he’s about to give farmers a kicking when he first starts but it doesn’t end up like that.

FFS. It’s showing on my ipad as unavailable. Search Youtube for:
"Agricultural emissions and climate change: the science" from the Sustainable Food trust.

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

FFS. It’s showing on my ipad as unavailable. Search Youtube for:
"Agricultural emissions and climate change: the science" from the Sustainable Food trust.

Dieter Helm is good in some issues and a typical academic economist, not in the real world, on others.