Green energy powered by bullsh!t

[jendan]

Gets to me why tidal energy has never been harnessed. Predictable and clean. Probably because nobody would make any money.

Its why God gave us a Moon.We just havent cottoned on yet.

 

[jendan]

Because the sea is an incredibly destructive environment. Not only are there incredible physical forces at work, its salty to boot, so everything corrodes like mad. Lots of wave/tidal energy capture devices have been tried, they work fine, until a storm comes along and the whole lot gets smashed to pieces.

Whats the difference between it and hydro electric from dams?

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

Its why God gave us a Moon.We just havent cottoned on yet.

Dropping simple tidal generators into an existing risk flow is OK imho.
Erecting a barrier to create a total lagoon with a restricted outlet, like the Swansea Bay proposal that keeps being pushed by its promoter seeking huge public funds, is incredibly ecologically damaging as it totally changes the characteristics of the estuary including the silt flows.

The 2 approaches are "Chalk and cheese".

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

Whats the difference between it and hydro electric from dams?

Hydro from dams only flows one way, is much more controllable and doesn't suffer storms.....

 

[jendan]

Offshore wind turbines take a massive beating. The supposed expected lifespan is 20 years, but reading some of the B2B mags I get at work there's increasing evidence that most won't last even half that.

If thats true,then wind power is just a scam as well. The cost of construction with concrete etc must be massive.

 

[jendan]

Hydro from dams only flows one way, is much more controllable and doesn't suffer storms.....

There is bound to be a way of letting the tide back in unhindered,and then driving turbines on the way out.

 

[jendan]

Dropping simple tidal generators into an existing risk flow is OK imho.
Erecting a barrier to create a total lagoon with a restricted outlet, like the Swansea Bay proposal that keeps being pushed by its promoter seeking huge public funds, is incredibly ecologically damaging as it totally changes the characteristics of the estuary including the silt flows.

The 2 approaches are "Chalk and cheese".

What do we want though, clean energy and climate,or wading birds in the estuaries?

 

[ollie989898]

The domestic RHI scheme, which will have paid generously for those heat pumps (& biomass boilers) pays out for 7 years. The first systems installed will have been paying out for just about 7 years now, our biomass boiler included.

Without the RHI payments, those systems are dearer to run than a condensing boiler, or they were until the last month or so.

If our pellet boiler needs any expensive repairs, it will probably be scrapped and replaced with something cheaper/less green.

The whole thing is utter madness. So you get landed with a system you know is more expensive and more complex than a regular system? Fudging madness. Tell me the carbon footprint of having to renew the whole thing once it is fudged?

 

[neilo]

The whole thing is utter madness. So you get landed with a system you know is more expensive and more complex than a regular system? Fudging madness. Tell me the carbon footprint of having to renew the whole thing once it is fudged?

The RHI has more than paid for the pellet boiler, it's installation, and it's fuel over 7 years.

It would have left a large margin too, if I hadn't chosen to replace the boiler with a more reliable one, after the first cowboy installer went bankrupt to avoid heaps of warranty claims. The installer of the replacement then went into receivership when the solar FITs were reduced, but at least two rogues did well out of the RHI scheme.

Even with that 'complication', it has still left a margin over the cost of the system and it's fuel. A no-brainer for me really, but a ridiculous waste of govt resources on what is hardly a 'green' system IMO. Early on, the pellets had to be shipped in from Eastern Europe in 15kg (plastic) bags stacked on pallets! At least the pellets can be sourced from UK timber now.

 

[ollie989898]

I forgot to mention this earlier- you are no doubt aware of the handfuls of energy businesses who are going out of business right now. These are the smaller 'backyard' types who have been selling wholesale energy and flogging it to retail customers like everyone on this forum. Now, having 200,000 customers paying a couple of hundred quid a year is just great. You have fudge all overhead besides a computer and a few call centre workers. You make money hand over fist by buying cheap (refer to earlier post) wholesale energy and flogging it for retail prices like say, 15p a unit (no idea what it is is these days. The same can be done with gas, too.

Now, a quick look at the Ofgem site will tell you that the daily electricity wholesale price averages about £90 per MWh. That's a megawatt mind but there are a lot of units in one of those so your 15p a unit is actually about £150/MWh. So these companies buy a megawatt hour for £90 and then sell it for £150. The difference is profit. And remember they don't have a powerplant to buy, run, staff or decommission. Sounds great doesn't it? Well it was and they all made a lot of money over the last 20 years where the wholesale price has actually be sat at £40MWh or thereabouts for years.

Fast forward to today mind and suddenly gas is pretty expensive. As I said before the UK generates a LOT of electricity from burning gas. Now suddenly, wholesale off peak electricity prices are £4000/MWh at periods during the day when demand is high and production (no wind or solar lately) is flat on its arsh. But you are a middle man energy company who agreed to sell Doris at 13 whippersnapper street her electricity on a contract which said 15 p a unit. Suddenly you are obliged to continue buying the stuff at unheard of prices and you can't get that out Doris every time she wants to put the kettle on. Multiply that by 200,000 Dorises and Oooof you've got an expensive problem where one rough night and you are losing serious cash and the writing is on the wall. You bust the company and disappear off into the sunset to buy a farm, leaving the larger energy companies to pick up Doris and her tariff because the regulator says they have to take her and the other 199,999 punters forward.

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

What do we want though, clean energy and climate,or wading birds in the estuaries?

Fair question. Depends who is answering.

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

There is bound to be a way of letting the tide back in unhindered,and then driving turbines on the way out.

As soon as you create a slack water lagoon the silt will settle there. In Swansea Bay that will Bury risk bay wildlife

 

[thorpe]

i might be ignorant! but what happend to the north sea gas fields?

 

[Exfarmer]

I am sorry nearly all the commentators on here absolutely no idea how the energy market works.
If I have time tomorrow I will post a full explanation.
I will just say that all green energy suppliers have to justify this label by buying the certificates.
But there are certificates available for energy which never gets to market, ie it is used before exporting.
So a green wnergy company can use certificates produced by solar delivered at night
Secondly the problem currently is many of the small supplier have been relying on the fact that over the last few years the day trading market is far cheaper than the futures. They have been selling electricity which they do not own hoping to buy it on the day market. Suddenly the day price has shot through the roof and they have been caught with their trousers down.
Before you criticise them too hard how many farmers have been caught out on the futures?
My gas supplier has saved me several thousand pounds and even my Group buyer has not been able to touch them over the last few years.

 

[Swarfmonkey]

If thats true,then wind power is just a scam as well. The cost of construction with concrete etc must be massive.

Not so much an intentional scam, more a case of over-optimism on the part of the manufacturers.

 

[ollie989898]

Not so much an intentional scam, more a case of over-optimism on the part of the manufacturers.

I am not sure how one goes about repairing structures made of plastic composites- which is basically what carbon fibre reinforced plastics are. They are very light and strong but once they have cycled through a given number of flexing cycles they begin to crack and fragment- a fact known by the manufacturers of sports cars with carbon fibre chassis and aeronautical companies making aircraft wings etc- once cracked they basically write them off as I'm not sure they are possible to repair.

 

[Swarfmonkey]

Wasted effort trying to repair most composites. Bin and replace.

 

[Jonp]

I forgot to mention this earlier- you are no doubt aware of the handfuls of energy businesses who are going out of business right now. These are the smaller 'backyard' types who have been selling wholesale energy and flogging it to retail customers like everyone on this forum. Now, having 200,000 customers paying a couple of hundred quid a year is just great. You have fudge all overhead besides a computer and a few call centre workers. You make money hand over fist by buying cheap (refer to earlier post) wholesale energy and flogging it for retail prices like say, 15p a unit (no idea what it is is these days. The same can be done with gas, too.

Now, a quick look at the Ofgem site will tell you that the daily electricity wholesale price averages about £90 per MWh. That's a megawatt mind but there are a lot of units in one of those so your 15p a unit is actually about £150/MWh. So these companies buy a megawatt hour for £90 and then sell it for £150. The difference is profit. And remember they don't have a powerplant to buy, run, staff or decommission. Sounds great doesn't it? Well it was and they all made a lot of money over the last 20 years where the wholesale price has actually be sat at £40MWh or thereabouts for years.

Fast forward to today mind and suddenly gas is pretty expensive. As I said before the UK generates a LOT of electricity from burning gas. Now suddenly, wholesale off peak electricity prices are £4000/MWh at periods during the day when demand is high and production (no wind or solar lately) is flat on its arsh. But you are a middle man energy company who agreed to sell Doris at 13 whippersnapper street her electricity on a contract which said 15 p a unit. Suddenly you are obliged to continue buying the stuff at unheard of prices and you can't get that out Doris every time she wants to put the kettle on. Multiply that by 200,000 Dorises and Oooof you've got an expensive problem where one rough night and you are losing serious cash and the writing is on the wall. You bust the company and disappear off into the sunset to buy a farm, leaving the larger energy companies to pick up Doris and her tariff because the regulator says they have to take her and the other 199,999 punters forward.

So why can't we have a single generating body that sells us electricity at wholesale price or cost price + regulated profit and cut out the middle man taking his cut?
Electricity is pretty essential nowadays like food and water.

 

[Pilatus]

I say to people, you might be buying green energy but you will not be using green electricity. Why not they ask , because all electricity however produced goes along the same National grid cables and eventually into our homes down the same cable. No separate power lines to homes for green electricity.

 

[Exfarmer]

So why can't we have a single generating body that sells us electricity at wholesale price or cost price + regulated profit and cut out the middle man taking his cut?
Electricity is pretty essential nowadays like food and water.

Because you have to have a middle man providing the network , ie cables transformers etc . It can be done by having the generation on site.