ground source vs air souce for new build

Clive

Staff Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lichfield
any points to consider? research so far suggests that ground source is better long term despite initial outlay. I have heard that the ground source can affect plants in gardens? any info very welcome and thanks in advance.


have a chat with @Chris F on this - he has done loads of research for a new build he's planning

I think he reckons air source
 
Ground source here . 4 x 170 m runs out into the field . Solar panels on shed which earn us money and charge up a power pack which runs the heating / hot water and the borehole . We get RHI payments for the heating and payments for the electricity generated that goes into the grid . Our house is run for virtually nothing . We have a wood burner in the lounge cos we like to sit in front of the fire . Underfloor heating upstairs and downstairs .
Do you have any radiators or can it all be done through underground heating? Are you paid on the more recent model of estimated heat produced in relation to your building’s EPC? What’s the admin side of it like?
 

Hfd Cattle

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Hereford
Do you have any radiators or can it all be done through underground heating? Are you paid on the more recent model of estimated heat produced in relation to your building’s EPC? What’s the admin side of it like?
The power pack is a system supplied by SBS power which charges up via the solar and then runs the heat pump for the ground source and the borehole for the house and cattle sheds. Once the battery's are fully charged then any surplus electric is fed back into the grid which gives us a return of about £400 a year . This might not sound much but our electric bill is nil in summer months and virtually nil in winter . We have no radiators just underfloor downstairs and upstairs . As said before the wood burner is unnecessary but we like having it lit . You don't need sunlight for the solar to work just good daylight . Yes we are paid in relation to the EPC but as it's a fairy new build oak frame house it was easy to achieve . The company that installed the ground source did all the admin for the heating and the solar company did all the admin for the solar panels . The OH signs off every year a confirmation that the circumstances haven't changed and that's all we do . The ground source RHI brings in about £1250 a year in payments . The whole system cost about £30,000 to install that's including the borehole , solar panels and heat system .
 

Hfd Cattle

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Hereford
any points to consider? research so far suggests that ground source is better long term despite initial outlay. I have heard that the ground source can affect plants in gardens? any info very welcome and thanks in advance.
If you put ground source in your garden in what they call 'slinky' design you will end up with a lifeless garden . It really needs to be in long lines out into a field . Ideally 2 or lines going out and returning and about 3 m apart. It also needs to be virgin ground ,i.e., not made up ground , and about 3'6"" into the ground
 

scotston

Member
I installed 4km of slinky in 8 x 50m trenches 1.2m wide x 1.2m deep in a field in 2017 for a shared ground loop array, 26kw. Got 2.5t/acre organic spring oats this year on said array; no too lifeless.
 

Hfd Cattle

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Hereford
I installed 4km of slinky in 8 x 50m trenches 1.2m wide x 1.2m deep in a field in 2017 for a shared ground loop array, 26kw. Got 2.5t/acre organic spring oats this year on said array; no too lifeless.
The type I waś referring to was when someone digs up their back garden and puts the looping back and fro across the garden with no decent width between trenches . You will then have the looping drawing all the heat out of the ground with no chance of the 'natural' resources being able to replenish .
We went into this extensively . We visited 8 different sites where various methods had been done. The evidence was clear that if the looping was too intensive then the ground suffered over a period of 10 yrs or more and the heating system became less efficient . Ours was put in in April 2016 and so far very pleased ......but we won't really know until yrs ahead but one site we visited did it the same way 12yrs ago ( I think they were one of the first ) and theirs is very successful ....... I'm not saying yours isn't or won't I'm just giving out my experience and research because I was asked for it
 

Timbo

Member
Location
Gods County
Do you have any radiators or can it all be done through underground heating? Are you paid on the more recent model of estimated heat produced in relation to your building’s EPC? What’s the admin side of it like?

If you're going with a heat pump type design, radiators wont work due to the system only running at 40-50c not the usual 60-70c as with a boiler. You'd also have a large thermal store so you can run the heatpump full bore using the cheapest source of energy - eg solar during the day or off peak at night.
 

som farmer

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
somerset
all I can say, is what the architect told me, on our build, ground source, ok, if down a bore hole, otherwise not, saying systems that have been going for years, have 'used' up available heat, panels, no idea of how long they will last, repairs, etc, resounding no, so we put in a wood burner, and modern elec storage heaters - very efficient.
 
If you're going with a heat pump type design, radiators wont work due to the system only running at 40-50c not the usual 60-70c as with a boiler. You'd also have a large thermal store so you can run the heatpump full bore using the cheapest source of energy - eg solar during the day or off peak at night.
Thank you. That makes sense. Decisions, decisions
 

som farmer

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
somerset
all I can say, is what the architect told me, on our build, ground source, ok, if down a bore hole, otherwise not, saying systems that have been going for years, have 'used' up available heat, panels, no idea of how long they will last, repairs, etc, resounding no, so we put in a wood burner, and modern elec storage heaters - very efficient.
I should add, much cheaper than other systems.
 
all I can say, is what the architect told me, on our build, ground source, ok, if down a bore hole, otherwise not, saying systems that have been going for years, have 'used' up available heat, panels, no idea of how long they will last, repairs, etc, resounding no, so we put in a wood burner, and modern elec storage heaters - very efficient.
How many years in have people noticed a drop in efficiency/heat then? Almost a shame to have to pay extra for bore hole when space available laterally for the pipes. My next concern was that being on clay there are stories of it shrinking and constructing the system
 

som farmer

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
somerset
How many years in have people noticed a drop in efficiency/heat then? Almost a shame to have to pay extra for bore hole when space available laterally for the pipes. My next concern was that being on clay there are stories of it shrinking and constructing the system
architect was so against, didn't pursue, he is well respected, so took the warning.
 

24/7 farming

Member
Location
Donegal
architect was so against, didn't pursue, he is well respected, so took the warning.
That sounds very far fetched!, our ground source heating has only really kicked in this month, and usually is running very lightly by April again so is only drawing heat for 8 hrs a day for 6 months of the year at the most. I thought ground source actually drew most of its heat requirements from the moisture in the ground and as this is constantly moving thru the ground and as such doesn't really hav an effect on the long term ground temps.
In the summertime our pump can actually run reverse and draw heat out of the house and disapates in back into the ground!
 

Hfd Cattle

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Hereford
architect was so against, didn't pursue, he is well respected, so took the warning.
I'm very surprised to hear of an architect being against ground source heating . The only reason I can think of would be the lack of space to put in the necessary ground loops but I would be interested in his reasoning.
We looked into geo thermal through the bore hole but it didn't convince me against loops in fields.
We even had look at running pipes through the stream but it didn't convince me either .
I'm not saying we are right but I just trying to be helpful with our experience .
 

som farmer

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
somerset
I'm very surprised to hear of an architect being against ground source heating . The only reason I can think of would be the lack of space to put in the necessary ground loops but I would be interested in his reasoning.
We looked into geo thermal through the bore hole but it didn't convince me against loops in fields.
We even had look at running pipes through the stream but it didn't convince me either .
I'm not saying we are right but I just trying to be helpful with our experience .
lack of room, def not a problem, it surprised me, but, if told bad, you don't do ! friend has his down the farm borehole, that works. Perhaps more interesting, the electrician said, the modern 'storage heaters' were incredibly cheap to run, and install.
 
We have radiators up stairs off the GSHP. Largeish double ones running all the time that any if the underfloor zones have a demand. As they’re warm but not hot for longish periods no room is under 21degree and the TRVs do their work
Sounds like a sauna compared to my current house!!
 

br jones

Member
lack of room, def not a problem, it surprised me, but, if told bad, you don't do ! friend has his down the farm borehole, that works. Perhaps more interesting, the electrician said, the modern 'storage heaters' were incredibly cheap to run, and install.
Storage heaters ,combined with solar and storage
 

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