Grouse moor management

Yep,burning banned here,English nature "Just sign this bit of paper agreeing to stop burning then we will renew your stewardship scheme" Flailing banned on neighbouring moor also.
Don't have any moor land or hill grazing, so I have no experience of open hill, but surely if burning is banned, won't there be a problem of large fires when the fuel load builds up? Surely, periodic burns in the winter is far better?
 

Bury the Trash

Member
Mixed Farmer
Don't have any moor land or hill grazing, so I have no experience of open hill, but surely if burning is banned, won't there be a problem of large fires when the fuel load builds up? Surely, periodic burns in the winter is far better?
Yes.
and accidental burning
cant be banned because seriously enough fire doesn't respect rules,regulations or the law. if it could we wouldnt need firemen.
So Clever people forget that, didn't matter so much back in the days when the areas weren't as tightly populated but nowadays.......
 
Yes.
and accidental burning
cant be banned because seriously enough fire doesn't respect rules,regulations or the law. if it could we wouldnt need firemen.
So Clever people forget that, didn't matter so much back in the days when the areas weren't as tightly populated but nowadays.......
In the south wales valleys there are lots of fires, set by young people. I listened years ago to a radio programme, talking about the fact the land was taken from the local population, so there is a culture that the land does not belong to them, so that is why there is so much arson. Disenfranchisement has caused a cultural script for not caring for the local environment.
 

Jack Russell

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Holderness
Just got back in and was surprised to see how much of a response this has got. I thought it may get a couple of one word answers. Thanks for the response, as always it’s an education.
 

Purli R

Member
Don't have any moor land or hill grazing, so I have no experience of open hill, but surely if burning is banned, won't there be a problem of large fires when the fuel load builds up? Surely, periodic burns in the winter is far better?
Er you know that, I know that, Other people on here know that................ If we could do without our stewardship payments,the matches would be out!(y)
 

bluebell

Member
what i dont understand is this? im not what you call highley educated? you can tell by my spelling? but even i, have learnt from various TV programmes over the years, that in other parts of the world, ie, australia, and north america the indeginious tribes, people had, or have, used controlled burning to encourage animals for hunting?
 

Dry Rot

Member
Livestock Farmer
what i dont understand is this? im not what you call highley educated? you can tell by my spelling? but even i, have learnt from various TV programmes over the years, that in other parts of the world, ie, australia, and north america the indeginious tribes, people had, or have, used controlled burning to encourage animals for hunting?
Traditional strip burning, as done on well managed UK grouse moors, gives the benefit of both. No need for these runaway fires with that as a fire out of control simply burns into a previously burnt area and either dies out through lack of fuel or is easier to control. So simple, the "experts" can't see it.

But successful heather burning does require a degree of experience and expertise. If the wind gets up, changes direction, or the heather is too dry, or there are no fire breaks, or not enough man power to control the fire, you get these runaway fires. It's these morons that see a fire and think it is a bad thing and only causing harm that cause runaways.

Then, of course, after the fire, there is the re-growth which is very nutritious (like a new grass ley) for sheep, deer, and grouse. Fine for grouse but they also need shelter for nesting and cover for chicks from the weather and predators. Long heather is also good for hiding deer calves. (I experienced 4 inches of snow in June at my previous address!).But, like a ley, it needs to be managed. Over graze it and it is good for nothing. At least old rank heather can provide shelter, even if little else.
 
shooting always just gets in the way with these arguments.

yes, burning is good for grouse but it’s good for EVERYTHING.

people forget that it’s grouse that pays for the burning.

if the grouse income goes then either the public purse pays for it or it gets re wielded and long term causes hell for wildlife when the massive fires come.

sad state of affairs as usual
 

Dry Rot

Member
Livestock Farmer
Burning is one of those things that's very difficult to prove either way so the emotional (townie) reaction wins. Fire destroys, so it MUST be bad. The trouble is, life isn't as simple as that. Probably won't see the results of good burning for several years. Bad burning shows up very quickly.

Langholm, a good moor that got taken over and ruined by the RSPB, is an example of what can happen. Anyone who was on the old farming forum got an example of that. An official twitcher gave the protectionists version of events without knowing there was a former grazing tenant on the forum. I also got feedback from the technicians who did the grouse counts as I'd supplied the dogs. Quote: "You can prove anything with statistics".
 
Looks like fires are caused by undergrazing, well that's a surprise! I wonder why the environmental bodies are all wanting less grazing?

 

Bury the Trash

Member
Mixed Farmer
shooting always just gets in the way with these arguments.

yes, burning is good for grouse but it’s good for EVERYTHING.

people forget that it’s grouse that pays for the burning.

if the grouse income goes then either the public purse pays for it or it gets re wielded and long term causes hell for wildlife when the massive fires come.

sad state of affairs as usual
Hmm, on Dartmoor /Exmoor farmers /commoners do it they wont cost the public anything.
 

2wheels

Member
Location
aberdeenshire
Burning is one of those things that's very difficult to prove either way so the emotional (townie) reaction wins. Fire destroys, so it MUST be bad. The trouble is, life isn't as simple as that. Probably won't see the results of good burning for several years. Bad burning shows up very quickly.

Langholm, a good moor that got taken over and ruined by the RSPB, is an example of what can happen. Anyone who was on the old farming forum got an example of that. An official twitcher gave the protectionists version of events without knowing there was a former grazing tenant on the forum. I also got feedback from the technicians who did the grouse counts as I'd supplied the dogs. Quote: "You can prove anything with statistics".
i drove over the langholm moor road a couple of months ago. no sign of any wildlife. on the next big estate ther seemed to be a good bit more. just obsevations from a passing car.
 

CHAP Webinar - Innovative tools to overcome the challenges of Regen Ag

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Applying principles of regen ag can incur a range of on-farm challenges. Learn how innovative tools & machinery can help with these hurdles.

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