GS 59 witness tests

[Exfarmer]

Has anyone had their GS 59 trip updated yet?
Does anyone know who can do this update?
How many have registered their GS 59 with “ The accelerated loss of mains change programme” yet?

 

[sjt01]

Has anyone had their GS 59 trip updated yet?
Does anyone know who can do this update?
How many have registered their GS 59 with “ The accelerated loss of mains change programme” yet?

Awaiting quotes from the witness team, we have contacted our supplier of control systems for the CHP who will supply the new G59 relay. Frustrating, because our old rubbish CHP had a G59 relay that did RoCoF rather than Vector shift, which is what we need now.

 

[akaPABLO01]

HOWPOW

 

[Dave488]

I've had 3 quotes ranging from £1044 to £1350 for reprogramming my G59 from vector shift to RoCof as it has capacity to do both, but the RoCof is set to zero.

List on ENA contactors is below

 

[e3120]

I've had 3 quotes ranging from £1044 to £1350 for reprogramming my G59 from vector shift to RoCof as it has capacity to do both, but the RoCof is set to zero.

List on ENA contactors is below

I think I'm in the same situation, with a mainspro that is supposed to do RoCoF, but currently set for vector shift. Are you applying for the grant yourself and then paying the contractor? My maintenance company would like to apply on my behalf for the full £4k, but want me to underwrite it if the application is unsuccessful. I have both financial and moral objections to this.

 

[Dave488]

I think I'm in the same situation, with a mainspro that is supposed to do RoCoF, but currently set for vector shift. Are you applying for the grant yourself and then paying the contractor? My maintenance company would like to apply on my behalf for the full £4k, but want me to underwrite it if the application is unsuccessful. I have both financial and moral objections to this.

Yeh mine is a mainspro G59 and as you say it is capable of doing RoCof, so basically just needs settings altered, for which you can claim £1500, you can only claim £4000 if you are replacing the relay and then it would need DNO witness too i believe.

So i have applied for the grant of £1500 myself, doesn't take long to fill out online, 30 minutes if that, the only thing i had to do was scroll through the limit screen on the relay, and that basically told me what the relay was set at, which they ask for in application, think vector shift was set at 20 and RoCof was set to 0, basically disabled, so my understanding is all contractor has to do is set vector shift to zero and set RoCof to the required settings using the arrow keys that are on the relay itself, then test and certify it. Easy money for contractor.

I did talk to our DNO, Northern Power grid and they said not to do any work until the funding has been agreed as there's always chance if you get work done they could refuse to fund it for that reason, obviously they wouldn't say that, but why fund something when work has already been done and paid for. Said would be April or May before you would find out if funding had been granted.

Personally if I was you I'd apply yourself, get approval for funding, then organise contractor and pay yourself, best quote was from Global Substation Solutions in Hebburn. As all maintenance firm will be doing is pocketing any funds left over.

 

[Dave488]

This is the relay I have and if you download the mainspro comprehensive guide at the bottom it tells you how to scroll through settings, think it was right arrow then up and down to see different settings

MainsPro Mains Decoupling Protection Relay (G59) - Camax UK Ltd

www.camax.co.uk

 

[e3120]

Yeh mine is a mainspro G59 and as you say it is capable of doing RoCof, so basically just needs settings altered, for which you can claim £1500, you can only claim £4000 if you are replacing the relay and then it would need DNO witness too i believe.

So i have applied for the grant of £1500 myself, doesn't take long to fill out online, 30 minutes if that, the only thing i had to do was scroll through the limit screen on the relay, and that basically told me what the relay was set at, which they ask for in application, think vector shift was set at 20 and RoCof was set to 0, basically disabled, so my understanding is all contractor has to do is set vector shift to zero and set RoCof to the required settings using the arrow keys that are on the relay itself, then test and certify it. Easy money for contractor.

I did talk to our DNO, Northern Power grid and they said not to do any work until the funding has been agreed as there's always chance if you get work done they could refuse to fund it for that reason, obviously they wouldn't say that, but why fund something when work has already been done and paid for. Said would be April or May before you would find out if funding had been granted.

Personally if I was you I'd apply yourself, get approval for funding, then organise contractor and pay yourself, best quote was from Global Substation Solutions in Hebburn. As all maintenance firm will be doing is pocketing any funds left over.

Cheers, mine looks just like that. I think the Co want to replace it just to maximise their income.

I'll have to read it carefully again, but it might be possible (as only settings changes, no replacement or disabling) to do it oneself. I have a chart in the cabinet and the original witness cert with the settings that should be active today.

 

[Exfarmer]

Thanks for replies
I have today had a god look at my relays, which appear to be the Mainspro ( looking elsewhere it seems there only 2 suppliers of independent GS 59 relays

As far as I can make out it has settings for both VS and RCF
they are Max 1.7 for VS
and Max .76 for RCF
would this make sense? and does anyone know if they need adjusting?

The next question is those arrays which rely on the inverter internal GS59, what happens here?
some useful information on here but I have difficulty understanding it. It seems my electrician does too

 

[Exfarmer]

Just had a very prompt reply from Mainspro regarding their relays.
It is not possible to adjust the older relays to the correct settings without a return to factory which they will do.
However such relays will not have any warrantee.
New preprogrammed relays are available for £430 with 2 year warrantee.
So the basic grant seems a very reasonable offer.
After replacing you will need a new witness test though, but the first one is free provided they pass the test.

 

[Exfarmer]

Yeh mine is a mainspro G59 and as you say it is capable of doing RoCof, so basically just needs settings altered, for which you can claim £1500, you can only claim £4000 if you are replacing the relay and then it would need DNO witness too i believe.

So i have applied for the grant of £1500 myself, doesn't take long to fill out online, 30 minutes if that, the only thing i had to do was scroll through the limit screen on the relay, and that basically told me what the relay was set at, which they ask for in application, think vector shift was set at 20 and RoCof was set to 0, basically disabled, so my understanding is all contractor has to do is set vector shift to zero and set RoCof to the required settings using the arrow keys that are on the relay itself, then test and certify it. Easy money for contractor.

I did talk to our DNO, Northern Power grid and they said not to do any work until the funding has been agreed as there's always chance if you get work done they could refuse to fund it for that reason, obviously they wouldn't say that, but why fund something when work has already been done and paid for. Said would be April or May before you would find out if funding had been granted.

Personally if I was you I'd apply yourself, get approval for funding, then organise contractor and pay yourself, best quote was from Global Substation Solutions in Hebburn. As all maintenance firm will be doing is pocketing any funds left over.

I have been busy, there is a second problem.
To claim the money from ENA for this work , your contractor , who must be a qualified electrician cannot certify you are G99 compliant unless the LOM feature is either turned off on the inverters ( obviously only if you have them ) or the inverter is modified to Rocoff standards. However to do this requires at least, new software in most cases from the inverter manufacturers and one of the biggest certainly is not going to do this, as they say the system already complies Wirth the supplied regulation. Ie . this is a retrospective requirement and they cannot be asked to do this.
There're is a also the question which is specific to nearly all the smaller installs of renewables that are MSC accredited installs, that they do not even have external GS 59 relays.
I also have Diehl Platinum inverters and they are not supporting the older models in any shape or form. Not sure how this fits with European law , but they claim to be a different company from the old Diehl Platinum which supplied them.
The ENA website quite clearly states, it is the generators responsibility to ensure their equipment meets the new regs!

 

[Dave488]

Just had a very prompt reply from Mainspro regarding their relays.
It is not possible to adjust the older relays to the correct settings without a return to factory which they will do.
However such relays will not have any warrantee.
New preprogrammed relays are available for £430 with 2 year warrantee.
So the basic grant seems a very reasonable offer.
After replacing you will need a new witness test though, but the first one is free provided they pass the test.

I rang them too and I was told £85 to be reprogrammed, with a 4 to 5 day turnaround or £390 for a new one through the ALoMC program, so as they offering £4k of funding I'm going to do that.

Regarding inverters this is the link they provide for advice

http://www.ena-eng.org/alomcp/assets/other/ALoMCP_Inverter_Info.pdf

My maintenance firm has told that I don't have inverters, and run on a motor drive system if that makes sense?

 

[Exfarmer]

I rang them too and I was told £85 to be reprogrammed, with a 4 to 5 day turnaround or £390 for a new one through the ALoMC program, so as they offering £4k of funding I'm going to do that.

Regarding inverters this is the link they provide for advice

http://www.ena-eng.org/alomcp/assets/other/ALoMCP_Inverter_Info.pdf

My maintenance firm has told that I don't have inverters, and run on a motor drive system if that makes sense?

Thanks David, I too have had similar advice from Mainspro . I now believe we have made contact with a company in a position to do the change.
once I have more details, i will post more, if I can deal with them.
I love the way that the above link gives the view that this or that inverter, should be OK , but it is up to the generator to ascertain this is correct.
I have tried speaking to Fronius but heard nothing back yet.
i am unaware of motor drive system I assume that is either a turbine of sorts, or an engine driven by a renewable source.

 

[sjt01]

Had my system updated yesterday. They took out the Deif Generator Protection Unit and replaced with a ComAp Mains Pro, which was configured and tested. Our system should be a bit more tolerant to minor fluctuations now.
The next stage is to fill in all the paperwork to get reimbursed through ALoMC, so am awaiting the test report from Ed who did the testing. We did not need UKPN to witness as Ed is approved by them to do the work.
We were off line for about 3 hours.

 

[Exfarmer]

Had my system updated yesterday. They took out the Deif Generator Protection Unit and replaced with a ComAp Mains Pro, which was configured and tested. Our system should be a bit more tolerant to minor fluctuations now.
The next stage is to fill in all the paperwork to get reimbursed through ALoMC, so am awaiting the test report from Ed who did the testing. We did not need UKPN to witness as Ed is approved by them to do the work.
We were off line for about 3 hours.

We are being lead to believe now the rules are all changing for some of the smaller set ups , we are waiting confirmation. It seems they have realised what a money spinner they have handed out, and just how many GS59’s there are out there

 

[Dave488]

Had my system updated yesterday. They took out the Deif Generator Protection Unit and replaced with a ComAp Mains Pro, which was configured and tested. Our system should be a bit more tolerant to minor fluctuations now.
The next stage is to fill in all the paperwork to get reimbursed through ALoMC, so am awaiting the test report from Ed who did the testing. We did not need UKPN to witness as Ed is approved by them to do the work.
We were off line for about 3 hours.

Mime was supposed to be replaced on Thursday with a new Mainspro relay, but it failed the witness test, firm who I got to do work are listed on the ALoMCP website and do loads of work on sub stations etc are saying not sure if relay up to it. But have talked to bloke that came to do witness testing says he's passed 30 or 40 of these relays, but had never seen it tested on test machine they were using, so going to have to try and get to the bottom of what has gone wrong

 

[Exfarmer]

Mime was supposed to be replaced on Thursday with a new Mainspro relay, but it failed the witness test, firm who I got to do work are listed on the ALoMCP website and do loads of work on sub stations etc are saying not sure if relay up to it. But have talked to bloke that came to do witness testing says he's passed 30 or 40 of these relays, but had never seen it tested on test machine they were using, so going to have to try and get to the bottom of what has gone wrong

Have you spoken to Mainspro, they are usually very helpful

 

[sjt01]

Had my system updated yesterday. They took out the Deif Generator Protection Unit and replaced with a ComAp Mains Pro, which was configured and tested. Our system should be a bit more tolerant to minor fluctuations now.
The next stage is to fill in all the paperwork to get reimbursed through ALoMC, so am awaiting the test report from Ed who did the testing. We did not need UKPN to witness as Ed is approved by them to do the work.
We were off line for about 3 hours.

All the paperwork is complete, just waiting for the money now!

 

[Dave488]

Have you spoken to Mainspro, they are usually very helpful

Do you contact Mainspro direct or go through ComAp as that's who I got it from. I know installer had talked to Mainspro the previous day when they were testing it prior to the witness test

 

[Exfarmer]

Do you contact Mainspro direct or go through ComAp as that's who I got it from. I know installer had talked to Mainspro the previous day when they were testing it prior to the witness test

I think I went through ComAp