gs4 legume and herb rich

[Derrick Hughes]

You have a whole year to plant it in the first year of your Stewardship agreement. So you can take an arable crop off and plant it in the Autumn.
I established mine by broadcasting with a Slug Pelleter onto a seedbed. You may need to top it in that first Autumn.
You can apply P&K, but not N.
I take 2 cuts from it each year, in June/July and September. The Rules say it must be left 6 weeks, between cuts.

I’m in year 5 of mine now. This is the cut we took in Mid June this year.
View attachment 970430
View attachment 970431

The 2nd always has much more clover in it.

How have the herbs persisted ? Can't see much Chicory
I would not advise sowing to late, Herbs and Clovers don't establish well much after August especially in a wet year
Is it 5 weeks rest between May 1st to 31st July ?

 

[Two Tone]

How have the herbs persisted ? Can't see much Chicory

Absolutely fine. But there tends to be far more of them in the 2nd cut.

 

[Derrick Hughes]

Absolutely fine. But there tends to be far more of them in the 2nd cut.

Clovers and herbs are like that even in a conventional ley , slow starters in the spring , yours looking good

 

[Norfolk Hill Farmer]

Would one option be to establish the grasses first , spray thistles/ Other weeds , take a cut or graze hard , then add in the legumes and herbs ??

 

[Two Tone]

Clovers and herbs are like that even in a conventional ley , slow starters in the spring , yours looking good

We use most of the 1st cut as haylage for our Red Deer enterprise. It is ideal for that. If I have more than I need, I make hay of it. Some horsey people love it, but other don’t like the clover in it and prefer Meadow hay.
The 2nd cut gets used by our tenant to feed his Dexter pure-grass-fed cattle. The grass fields he rents from us are all a similar mix anyway, being PRG and Red Clover. His grass seems to have more clover in the first cut. He can apply a small rate of N to his.

I cannot believe how much yield we get from our GS4, even in its final year. Most will come out of it this year as we start a new MTS agreement. On some fields it was the best thing we ever did, as those fields were never any good as Arable. These will stay in it. By showing it in next year’s BPS as FA01 Fallow, it will not become Permanent Pasture. If and when the clovers and herbs drop off, we could DD some more into them after the 2nd cut. But so far, that will not be necessary.

 

[Derrick Hughes]

Would one option be to establish the grasses first , spray thistles/ Other weeds , take a cut or graze hard , then add in the legumes and herbs ??

Not sure they would be happy with that as sprays are not permitted, but it's quite easy to form a stale seedbed either with direct drilling or convertional as long as you have time and t dampish weather , we have both ATM

 

[Derrick Hughes]

Mixed clover ley Annual s Some Red and White , direct drilled in burnt off pasture in May , it's been slow as it only had rain this last few days

 

[Derrick Hughes]

Would one option be to establish the grasses first , spray thistles/ Other weeds , take a cut or graze hard , then add in the legumes and herbs ??

How to establish
Sow shallowly on to a firm, clean, fine seedbed. Or, sow into an established grass sward. Create at least 50% bare ground (and preferably 70%) and pay careful attention to slugs and other pests. Sowing legumes and herbs after August may not allow good enough establishment before the winter.

This is what it says , you may be pushing it a bit ,

 

[Norfolk Hill Farmer]

GS4 only has to go in in the first 12 months so plenty of time to put it in. Have got 10 acres going in DD into sprayed off grass ley in the next couple of weeks then more in the autumn into arable and also grass ley.

You have a whole year to plant it in the first year of your Stewardship agreement. So you can take an arable crop off and plant it in the Autumn.
I established mine by broadcasting with a Slug Pelleter onto a seedbed. You may need to top it in that first Autumn.
You can apply P&K, but not N.
I take 2 cuts from it each year, in June/July and September. The Rules say it must be left 6 weeks, between cuts.

I’m in year 5 of mine now. This is the cut we took in Mid June this year.
View attachment 970430
View attachment 970431

The 2nd always has much more clover in it.

Not sure they would be happy with that as sprays are not permitted, but it's quite easy to form a stale seedbed either with direct drilling or convertional as long as you have time and t dampish weather , we have both ATM

If you have to establish in the first year ie Before December 31st and claim that years payment, are there restrictions from 1st January re chemicals etc ? as above ,you presumably can take a conventional crop of say winter Wheat as long as you leave enough growing time to establish.

 

[Two Tone]

If you have to establish in the first year ie Before December 31st and claim that years payment, are there restrictions from 1st January re chemicals etc ? as above ,you presumably can take a conventional crop of say winter Wheat as long as you leave enough growing time to establish.

No restrictions in year 1 of chemicals on a wheat crop (or any other arable crop) preceding the establishment of GS4 that Autumn, (or by 31st December in year 1). You will get your full stewardship payment, as if that GS4 was established on 1st January of the 1st year, even though you squeezed in another cash crop in year 1.

 

[Derrick Hughes]

No restrictions in year 1 of chemicals on a wheat crop (or any other arable crop) preceding the establishment of GS4 that Autumn, (or by 31st December in year 1). You will get your full stewardship payment, as if that GS4 was established on 1st January of the 1st year, even though you squeezed in another cash crop in year 1.

Would it be better after winter barley , give more time to clean the stubble , I know with rape we had a fair bit of grain growing back

 

[Overby]

Can you still get the fencing grant to go with it? Sure I heard somewhere that was now an issue

 

[steveR]

post harvest seems best idea weed control wise.....would you claim for it in first year if not sown at claim time ....i suppose you'd do one a those forms to say you were going to it then submit


perhaps nectar plots better......feckin awful but you need less

All depends on the scheme... I have Bumblebird going in for next year, supposed to be drilled in Spring, but will be direct drilled post Wheat, in early September, all being well. From looking at last years attempt, it provides a great OWS as the seedlings establish and then gets awy quickly in teh Spring.

 

[Two Tone]

Would it be better after winter barley , give more time to clean the stubble , I know with rape we had a fair bit of grain growing back

Maybe a good idea to follow Winter Barley. But I followed Wheat with most of mine, ploughed it, created a seedbed using an SKH Crumbler twice that got me a good level seedbed with lines in it about the same depth as a set of Cambridge rolls would have done, broadcast the seed on with a quad bike and Slug Pelleter, then rolled it with a set of Cambridge rolls on a very light tractor.

The lines left behind the SKH Crumbler were a perfect depth for the seed to fall into. But power-harrowing followed by a Cambridge roll would have been as good.

See post 12 of https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/skh-crumblers.11420/

Yes, we had volunteer wheat and BLW’s that Autumn and I did use a topper to control them then.

We did some after Rape, but most of it had regrown before I ploughed it. The topper dealt with any regrowth in early November.

 

[spin cycle]

Would one option be to establish the grasses first , spray thistles/ Other weeds , take a cut or graze hard , then add in the legumes and herbs ??

i think one issue maybe that any decent thistle killer will have warnings about planting clovers soon after perhaps

 

[steveR]

Would it be better after winter barley , give more time to clean the stubble , I know with rape we had a fair bit of grain growing back

The stubble should be pristine, so not really needing much work, maybe a whiff of Glyphosate now that pre-harvest is contra indicated All depends if the mix allows a bit of cereal...

 

[Norfolk Hill Farmer]

i think one issue maybe that any decent thistle killer will have warnings about planting clovers soon after perhaps

The herbicide would be long gone by then , my concern would be the legumes and herbs wouldn't be able to establish amongst the grass that is already there.