Guardians of the Grassland - LIVE NOW

[Ben Campbell]

are there any carbon trading schemes up and running yet in Canada ?

I don't know a lot about this. From a ranching perspective, no not in my province. Carbon pricing/trading is organized on a provincial level and in my province there is a federally instituted carbon price $/tonne but it doesn't relate to livestock farming in a sense that I don't pay or recieve based on my farming practices. I am not aware of anything related to grazing animals in Canada yet

 

[Blaithin]

I'm not familiar with herbal leys. Mob grazing isn't common in Canada but it is growing in popularity. The ranch where this video was filmed started with no acres of high density grazing and adds 3,000 acres to it's high density grazing infrastructure every year. They have the ability to convert about 35,000 acres of their ranch into high density grazing which they currently do with yearlings. Typically they have 200 acre paddocks with 700-1,000 head of yearlings moved every 3 days but sometimes every day if they make the paddocks into 50 acre spaces.

In the UK they have seed packages that include herbs, like chicory. It boosts biodiversity and there’s been some research of it boosting animal health.

Id love to see more studies done on it here in Canada. I believe U of Lethbridge has some research on health benefits of native prairie plants to people but nothing that’s been linked to livestock. I think it would really boost interest in having plants like yarrow, sage, bergamot, etc in our native pastures.

 

[Mickenzie Plemel-Stronks]

Have you come across any robust and repeatable ways to measure the biodiversity and carbon sequestration of the grasslands that are cost effective for farm use? Here we are seeing the difficult development of new agricultural policy which will be in place for a generation. The government are creating a new "Environmental Land Management Scheme" based around us delivering "public goods" of soil health improvement, reversing biodiversity loss, flood risk reduction, increasing public land access and climate change mitigation by increasing carbon sequestration. The struggle is how to measure these things.

Yes the measurability piece of c02 sequestration is still something that isn't agreed upon in Canada as there are 2 different ways apparently (not my realm of expertise). As for biodiversity measuring, there is a program called Multi-Sar that has been monitoring species at risk on ranching operations in southern Alberta for about 10 years now. By using standard Rangeland, Riparian Area, and Wildlife survey protocols, and reassessing every 5 years, they have been able to benchmark and monitor biodiversity on active ranches, as well as what management practices help or hinder biodiversity. http://multisar.ca/ Not sure what the UK has in regards to a program like that.

 

[Treg]

I think one of the most important considerations for the success of the film is the power of partners in messaging like this. For Canada Beef to put this out on our own, it would be dismissed by critics for being biased. But by including other partners with the same mission to conserve natural spaces, like Ducks Unlimited and the Nature Conservancy of Canada, it brings a third party credibility to the film which is crucial if you are looking to build public trust in beef production.

That's a really good point , we often complain about our farm Organisations not getting the message across but I think your right that often people dismiss opinions from industry linked groups .
We need to link more with conservationist groups to get our positive messages across.

I know @delilah you've been saying that for ages

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

yes and a lot of that going on in the Uk right now with various bodies thinking they are protecting various ecosystems when in fact them may well be doing harm not letting them be farmed

I had this argument in my Environment Agency days regarding Water Voles, a protected species which is increasingly internationally threatened. We were told we had to stop cutting watercourse banks because it disturbed them yet many of our rivers were full of them. I asked whether they were there despite our past maintenance works or because of them. If the bank vegetation gets old and rank they have no fresh young plants to eat plus their burrows flood more often killing their young.

 

[Mickenzie Plemel-Stronks]

I've noticed that in Australia, regenerative agriculture is coming in for a lot of flack from more conventional no till agriculture (Its not backed by scientific evidence etc). I wonder if they (RA) have been too "preachy".

I have heard some similar feedback, but I think it comes down to that people tend to not want to change how they have been doing something if they think it has been successful. Proactive vs reactive.

 

[Ben Campbell]

I had this argument in my Environment Agency days regarding Water Voles, a protected species which is increasingly internationally threatened. We were told we had to stop cutting watercourse banks because it disturbed them yet many of our rivers were full of them. I asked whether they were there despite our past maintenance works or because of them. If the bank vegetation gets old and rank they have no fresh young plants to eat plus their burrows flood more often killing their young.

The ranch that this video was filmed on has a 1 or 2 acre "exclusion zone" which is fenced off and has not had cattle graze it for 30 years. They bring tours and professors there to examine it. It lacks biodiversity, has virtually no wild grazers because they can choose where they want to graze and they don't like that stuff. It has moss growing on the ground (a sign of a stagnant ecosystem in that location) and is filled with dead plant material above ground. The ground is actually largely bare when you pull the grass apart to look, with roughly (my personal guess) 80% of the space sitting bare/dead/idle.

There is no blanket statement that is true. Either that cattle are good for grasslands or that they are bad. Well managed grazing farms are good and poorly managed ones are damaging. The same can likely be said for most forms of agriculture.

 

[Mickenzie Plemel-Stronks]

I had this argument in my Environment Agency days regarding Water Voles, a protected species which is increasingly internationally threatened. We were told we had to stop cutting watercourse banks because it disturbed them yet many of our rivers were full of them. I asked whether they were there despite our past maintenance works or because of them. If the bank vegetation gets old and rank they have no fresh young plants to eat plus their burrows flood more often killing their young.

Interesting! Many times ranchers are hesitant to say that an endangered species is on their property due to potential enforced protection. How ever, if the species is there, it can be an indicator of good practices.

 

[Suffolk Serf]

I have heard some similar feedback, but I think it comes down to that people tend to not want to change how they have been doing something if they think it has been successful. Proactive vs reactive.

We had the situation in the UK where organic agriculture promoted itself by criticising conventional rather than on its own merits. Result a lot of conventional farmers hating organic etc. Thankfully the situation is now much better. Regenerative Ag must avoid that pitfall as it has enormous merits of its own of course.

 

[milkloss]

Carbon pricing will likely be the best friend for Canadian ranchers. There is currently a lot of work done to create a scientific baseline for soil organic matter across Canada. These numbers can then be used as a base point and hopefully there can be financial incentives based on carbon capture/release. So if you convert a conventionally tilled field with 2% organic matter into one with 15% you can be rewarded. I'm not sure if there would be a cost for releasing carbon, but personally I'd hope so. There is currently cash from the government for crop farmers to stop doing conventional tillage and do minimal or no tillage but it's a small incentive

I find this "carbon trading" idea difficult to swallow. So the suggestion is that having destroyed your soils you will now get rewarded for rebuilding the organic matter which could be quite profitable but the man that's maintained and looked after his land will benefit little. It would be much the same as rewarding a farmer that ripped his hedges out 30 years ago so he could rape the ground a little better and then pay him handsomely for replanting it all later. The farmer that's maintained and cut hedges in 10 acre fields for generations gets no recognition or support at all!

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

Yes the measurability piece of c02 sequestration is still something that isn't agreed upon in Canada as there are 2 different ways apparently (not my realm of expertise). As for biodiversity measuring, there is a program called Multi-Sar that has been monitoring species at risk on ranching operations in southern Alberta for about 10 years now. By using standard Rangeland, Riparian Area, and Wildlife survey protocols, and reassessing every 5 years, they have been able to benchmark and monitor biodiversity on active ranches, as well as what management practices help or hinder biodiversity. http://multisar.ca/ Not sure what the UK has in regards to a program like that.

Thanks, that's an interesting example of an existing partnership between ranchers and environmental professionals that delivers for both. I'll pass that on to my professional institution to look at as a model in regards to our new ELMS scheme.

 

[Mickenzie Plemel-Stronks]

The ranch that this video was filmed on has a 1 or 2 acre "exclusion zone" which is fenced off and has not had cattle graze it for 30 years. They bring tours and professors there to examine it. It lacks biodiversity, has virtually no wild grazers because they can choose where they want to graze and they don't like that stuff. It has moss growing on the ground (a sign of a stagnant ecosystem in that location) and is filled with dead plant material above ground. The ground is actually largely bare when you pull the grass apart to look, with roughly (my personal guess) 80% of the space sitting bare/dead/idle.

There is no blanket statement that is true. Either that cattle are good for grasslands or that they are bad. Well managed grazing farms are good and poorly managed ones are damaging. The same can likely be said for most forms of agriculture.

So well said Ben!

 

[JP1]

Hello Everyone! My name is Ben Campbell and I'm one of the ranchers that was featured on the show. I'd be happy to answer questions that people have. I'd also like to thank you for taking the time to watch our video, we put a lot of ourselves into it and are happy to share it with you.

Ben I have no internet currently but will watch it and come back to you

If it’s streamed on YouTube or Vimeo could you send me a link so I can share on social media please ?

 

[Mickenzie Plemel-Stronks]

I find this "carbon trading" idea difficult to swallow. So the suggestion is that having destroyed your soils you will now get rewarded for rebuilding the organic matter which could be quite profitable but the man that's maintained and looked after his land will benefit little. It would be much the same as rewarding a farmer that ripped his hedges out 30 years ago so he could rape the ground a little better and then pay him handsomely for replanting it all later. The farmer that's maintained and cut hedges in 10 acre fields for generations gets no recognition or support at all!

Yes, I hear you on that. Currently, there is an "Avoided Conversion Protocol" in the test phases in order to incentivize keeping the habitat there in the first place. http://www.climateactionreserve.org/how/protocols/canada-grassland/

 

[Suffolk Serf]

Ben I have no internet currently but will watch it and come back to you

If it’s streamed on YouTube or Vimeo could you send me a link so I can share on social media please ?

You missed a brilliant session IMHO, thanks to Amie, Ben and Mikenzie for contributing and having your brains picked. You can come on here again!

 

[Grass And Grain]

Are you able to fatten cattle off grass in Canada? Or are they typically fattened on cereals?

What about winter time? Are the cattle housed and fed conserved forage? Or are they at grass.

 

[Ben Campbell]

I find this "carbon trading" idea difficult to swallow. So the suggestion is that having destroyed your soils you will now get rewarded for rebuilding the organic matter which could be quite profitable but the man that's maintained and looked after his land will benefit little. It would be much the same as rewarding a farmer that ripped his hedges out 30 years ago so he could rape the ground a little better and then pay him handsomely for replanting it all later. The farmer that's maintained and cut hedges in 10 acre fields for generations gets no recognition or support at all!

I totally know what you mean. I hope it isn't instituted like that and that farmers can actually get compensation for just having been and continuing to be good stewards. I don't know how to put something like this into action

 

[Grass And Grain]

Oh, and what price is beef over with you guys?

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

Interesting! Many times ranchers are hesitant to say that an endangered species is on their property due to potential enforced protection. How ever, if the species is there, it can be an indicator of good practices.

As farmers we need to learn to be proud of the diversity on our land and not to feel threatened by revealing and sharing its presence. Fully adopting a partnering approach with the ecological professionals towards nurturing our ecology (as in your Multisar scheme) would be a big step in that here.

 

[Amie Peck]

We are currently exploring the level of awareness in Canadian consumers in regards to regenerative agriculture and how common outcomes and principles impact their perceptions of Canadian beef production. The most exciting aspect of regenerative agriculture, in terms of public trust, is the focus on integration between livestock and crop operations. I believe this provides a great opportunity for the food system to talk about the inherit integration that exists - and benefits - both systems, limiting the comparisons between plant/animal and which is better in the eyes of the consumer.