warksfarmer
Member
I’ve no idea how many members camgrain has but let’s say it’s 500. 500 farmers will not work together.
However 500 farmers will work together if they are coordinated by 10. I think that’s what Clive was meaning.
Guy Smith's response to FW article on AIC rules.
- Thread starter Grass And Grain
- Start date
I’ve no idea how many members camgrain has but let’s say it’s 500. 500 farmers will not work together.
However 500 farmers will work together if they are coordinated by 10. I think that’s what Clive was meaning.
That doesn’t make sense.
- Location
- Lincolnshire
I think the idea that anything that a group of farmers use could be done cooperatively isn't necessarily true.
But I think we digress -
We don't need a crop assurance scheme when the basic laws of the land provide equal or better levels of protection than many third country imports which end users are happy to take and (it appears) might prefer to take.
Any assurance scheme needs to be
Voluntary IE lack of it should not remove markets open to imports under the self assured scheme.
Value adding. Consumers must pay a premium and receive a benefit to their business too.
Professional. It should promote itself on its benefits, rather than perceived weakness of those outside the scheme.
I can't see why this wouldn't fit a co-op model. The users are alike in business outlook. It benefits them all. There is clearly an emerging gap in the current requirements.
It's perceivable that coop stores could cooperate to produce a standard whereby all the members can use it; grants access to the store; and end users will be happy with. I say this as once you say your grain all goes off farm at harvest, the RT assurance takes half the time.
But I think we digress -
We don't need a crop assurance scheme when the basic laws of the land provide equal or better levels of protection than many third country imports which end users are happy to take and (it appears) might prefer to take.
Any assurance scheme needs to be
Voluntary IE lack of it should not remove markets open to imports under the self assured scheme.
Value adding. Consumers must pay a premium and receive a benefit to their business too.
Professional. It should promote itself on its benefits, rather than perceived weakness of those outside the scheme.
I can't see why this wouldn't fit a co-op model. The users are alike in business outlook. It benefits them all. There is clearly an emerging gap in the current requirements.
It's perceivable that coop stores could cooperate to produce a standard whereby all the members can use it; grants access to the store; and end users will be happy with. I say this as once you say your grain all goes off farm at harvest, the RT assurance takes half the time.
my criticism of co-op storage is just in relation to the cost, whoch vs commercial storage is very high ….. IMO
IF a co op offered equal to imports bulk testing (and i can see no reason why it couldn’t). it’s members would have have no red tractor requirement so could save the cost - that would go a long way towards the co-op cost !
i can’t see any reason whatsoever why a central store co-op member needs to be RT assured ?
cricky - if it was a way out of the protection racket i may even consider joining myself !!!
why are the co-op stores not doing this ? there is no reason for a co-op member to need RT membership whatsoever??? all the coop need to do us bulk test to the same standards as imports
no-one will actually tell us what the test stadards are however ……. which i find concerningly suspicious ……… could it be no more than moisture, bushel and mycotoxins etc maybe !!! ??
@Woldgrain Storage ? have you offered your membership this mechanism to save them RT costs ? if not, why not ?
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I am pretty sure I must be paying for red tractor twice, aswell as tascc and Camgrain is BRC assured aswell! I need to dig into this once more time is available.
SilliamWhale
Member
Because beyond that there aren't any. We all know that.
you should not be paying at all
taking a tested sample from a bulk store with no previous farm level assurance is acceptable by AIC under the same standards they allow imports into UK aic assured mills
neither Camgrain members or Camgrain themselves have any need to be RT members …….. just test the bulks like a boat gets tested (apparently !!)
the secrecy around import tests does make me wonder if it’s anything above on farm testing anyway ……… AIC will not tell us detail of these tests despite being asked directly on several occasions !!
- Location
- Lincolnshire
There is categorically no need for UK growers, following existing laws, delivering into a co-op store, to require any extra certification unless that certification provides a premium over imports that either a) accesses Marley's unavailable to imports not meeting those standards and or b) exceeds the cost of certification by the same margin we expect from a well timed T2 fungicide.
frankly thats the only logical conclusion when they wont tell us what these tests are
its bent as hell all this, people involved need hanging from lamp posts !
- Location
- Lincolnshire
A farmer owned mill that was a member of AIC would have access to that info.
you do ! potential to save members a lot of ££
if one big co-op does this then others will follow
large commercial stores could also do this and even large farm stores maybe viable depending on what exactly the bulk test requirement is ……… thats the mystery here …….. what are these bulk import tests actually ?
i think this could be the dirty little secret that blows this wide open !
i have a feeling the tests maybe no more than regular uk crop intake
I’m not sure how they could enforce residue tests etc from countries where uk banned product is used ? but even if they do such testing would still be cheaper than RT membership on bulk stores / cop-ops
Steevo
Member
- Location
- Gloucestershire
How do you test for things you don't know are there?
I mean we have one test for moisture, one for specific weight, another for screenings, one for protein, one for hagberg etc. All because those are the factors we are choosing to look for.
My point is you can't just do 1 test and it tells you 100 things. It's 100 tests designed to find those 100 things that you decide you want to know the levels of.
If you don't know you're looking for something, how can you find it?
Like a soil or plant test - if I just tested NPK but my limiting factor was actually Zinc or Boron, and I didn't test for those I'd be clueless.
If you suspect imported loads of containing lead, or arsenic, or paraquat then yes you can test for them. But how do you know they don't contain mercury for example unless you think (and pay) to test for it too?
Therefore, unless they carry out a million and one tests on each bulk load, I cannot see how they can tell what's what.
tullah
Member
- Location
- Linconshire
There must be somebody out there who could tell us what these tests are without going to AIC for them.
Steevo
Member
- Location
- Gloucestershire
The ideal person would be an employee of Eurofins, SGS or such. SGS do all the testing for Portbury IIRC.
Health & Nutrition
Ensuring the safety, quality and sustainability of food, healthcare and wellness products.
Question is how deep they are tied up in it all.
several of us have been asking / digging and so far we have no answers
no one wants to tell us ………. which is incredibly suspicious IMO
i would love to hear from anyone who knows - 100% in confidence if necessary
Steevo
Member
- Location
- Gloucestershire
i actually did research into off shoring my farm business ! not for tax reasons but so i could sell to uk merchants as imported crop
Steevo
Member
- Location
- Gloucestershire
Integrity at SGS
Makes for interesting reading.....