Guy Smith's response to FW article on AIC rules.

Grass And Grain

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Yorks
Anyone can go on the Red Tractor website and look up the standards that UK farmers have to comply with in easily downloadable PDF documents.

There aren't any set pesticide test dictated by AIC. It's up to the gatekeeper to decide what tests they do, if any. They could just do moisture if they wished.
 
you have no need to segregate and none of your members have any need to be assured

Page 78 of the 2021 TASCC code:
"If assured and non-assured goods are mixed for storage, the whole bulk must be treated as non-assured."

after bulk testing your outtake is as assured as any import.

Which tests though? What do these tests cost? Is it one test per silo or one test per grower?

you are not stuck

under AIC gatekeeper rules you can sell non farm assured cereals to the same AIC mills and merchants as “assured” by simply bulk testing/ asking for a farmer declaration on intake

We don't buy or sell any grain.
 

Clive

Staff Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lichfield
"If assured and non-assured goods are mixed for storage, the whole bulk must be treated as non-assured."



Which tests though? What do these tests cost? Is it one test per silo or one test per grower?



We don't buy or sell any grain.

your missing the point - none of your intake needs farm assurance as long as you bulk test pre output to AIC import bulk standards you (or your membership) can then sell it “assured” to the same mills and merchants under your TASSC AIC Gateway rules as imports do ……think as your stores as a boat at the dock with no farm level assurance, testing apparently makes it assured

no segregation required ! your membership drops RT all togethe, your not mixing, just dropping farm level assurance which is not required if you use the import methods - membership see no discounting of their crop, just savings

What are the test ? this is the million $ question ! - we have asked and been fobbed off by AHDB and AIC do far ……. we will find out eventually though, my suspicion is they are not many or onerous hence why no one whats to tell us !
 
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Widgetone

Member
Seems to me a few individuals are trying to encourage co op central storage ( which some of the same individuals ridicule ) to go non assured without having the courage to do so themselves.
 

Clive

Staff Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lichfield
Seems to me a few individuals are trying to encourage co op central storage ( which some of the same individuals ridicule ) to go non assured without having the courage to do so themselves.

going none assured is not about courage personally its about serous financial penalty

leaving would cost me and my contract farming customers serious money due to restricted market access

i would drop RT tomorrow if i could without it costing me that market access …. as would pretty much all cereal growers i’m sure

I maintain my view that CS is expensive vs alternatives BUT encourage them to offer membership value by using AIC rules to bypass Red Tractor. CS have bulks as big as the boats they are competing with so are in a unique position here
 

Grass And Grain

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Yorks
@Woldgrain Storage just to be clear...

Imports get "assured" by the shipper either sampling and pesticide testing the cargo (not on a lorry load basis), or by a pesticide declaration saying only grown with EU approved pesticides.

AIC only allow this with imports.

AIC currently say UK grain needs to be RT to be assured in their eyes.

So, if AIC can be convinced to let UK farmers have same assurance rules as they do for imports, then UK growers wouldn't need RT, and then a central store has the scale and is perfecrly placed to do the pesticide testing method for its storage customers. Then your customer can bin off RT, saving them money, and making them a very happy central storage customer.

This requires AIC to change their rules. So maybe a central storage company would see some value in lobbying AIC, to ask them if the central store can assure its grain in exactly the same manner as allowed for imports, if not why not?

Does that make sense?
 
@Woldgrain Storage just to be clear...

Imports get "assured" by the shipper either sampling and pesticide testing the cargo (not on a lorry load basis), or by a pesticide declaration saying only grown with EU approved pesticides.

AIC only allow this with imports.

AIC currently say UK grain needs to be RT to be assured in their eyes.

So, if AIC can be convinced to let UK farmers have same assurance rules as they do for imports, then UK growers wouldn't need RT, and then a central store has the scale and is perfecrly placed to do the pesticide testing method for its storage customers. Then your customer can bin off RT, saving them money, and making them a very happy central storage customer.

This requires AIC to change their rules. So maybe a central storage company would see some value in lobbying AIC, to ask them if the central store can assure its grain in exactly the same manner as allowed for imports, if not why not?

Does that make sense?

What are these tests and what do they cost?

We would have up to 60 tests to do, which would have to be funded by the membership as an additional cost.
 

tepapa

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
North Wales
Whatever the tests are, we would have up to 60 sets to duplicate.

Looking at the Fera website, each test is detailed with a price (£80-180 per sample), but no mention of who requires each test.
I assume you have 60 tests because you have 60 storage bins?

You'd only need individual tests for each product, e.g. Milling wheat, 1 test, feed wheat, 1 test, malting barely 1 test, feed barley 1 test etc your storage bins would be the same as 1 boat load just in different compartments but by the looks of it you'd only need to test moisture and Bushel weights since no-one will admit to testing imports with anything else.
 

Grass And Grain

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Yorks
Whatever the tests are, we would have up to 60 sets to duplicate.

Looking at the Fera website, each test is detailed with a price (£80-180 per sample), but no mention of who requires each test.
In the world of importing shippers, they can choose which tests they do. There isn't any set list (which they have to test for).

For example, they might choose to test mycotoxins in wheat if it's a known high risk mycotoxin year. Another season, they might not test wheat for mycotoxins. It's still their call, good or bad mycotoxins season.

If all your grain comes from the UK (with all our pesticide regulation, and only UK approved pesticides available to the farmer), you might decide it unecessary to do any pesticide tests, but maybe just test for moisture, bushel, protein.

That's the system for imports, and how they can then be deemed assured to send to a UK mill.
 

ajd132

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Suffolk
In the world of importing shippers, they can choose which tests they do. There isn't any set list (which they have to test for).

For example, they might choose to test mycotoxins in wheat if it's a known high risk mycotoxin year. Another season, they might not test wheat for mycotoxins. It's still their call, good or bad mycotoxins season.

If all your grain comes from the UK (with all our pesticide regulation, and only UK approved pesticides available to the farmer), you might decide it unecessary to do any pesticide tests, but maybe just test for moisture, bushel, protein.

That's the system for imports, and how they can then be deemed assured to send to a UK mill.
I’m sure woldgrain is the same as Camgrain but every load on intake is tested for moisture protein/n/oils, bushel, ergot, retention in barley, bugs.
Pretty comprehensive really.
 

Grass And Grain

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Yorks
I’m sure woldgrain is the same as Camgrain but every load on intake is tested for moisture protein/n/oils, bushel, ergot, retention in barley, bugs.
Pretty comprehensive really.
Yes, very comprehensive. Better than mixing it all up at an elevator, mixing it again as it's loaded on to a truck, then blending it on to a boat, then thinking you've done a decent job sampling the boat!
 

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