Hampshire Down- tell me about them

[Ysgythan]

Shite

 

[Cab-over Pete]

Oh. How so?

 

[Woolless]

Shite

Very constructive. I can't wait for the extended version.

 

[Ysgythan]

Oh. How so?

Processors don’t like them. That’s why they get hammered live, which is usually as good an indication as you need. Somebody will be along to say it makes little difference on the hook without realising it’s not that they do better, they hold everybody else back.

 

[Woolless]

Processors don’t like them. That’s why they get hammered live, which is usually as good an indication as you need. Somebody will be along to say it makes little difference on the hook without realising it’s not that they do better, they hold everybody else back.

I think we could probably accept that their KOP would be a bit behind a Texel x. What do you mean they hold everybody else back?

 

[M-J-G]

Processors don’t like them. That’s why they get hammered live, which is usually as good an indication as you need. Somebody will be along to say it makes little difference on the hook without realising it’s not that they do better, they hold everybody else back.

Ours regularly outsell Texels and Suffolks at the market.
Do you think buyers don't know what they are buying

 

[Ysgythan]

I think we could probably accept that their KOP would be a bit behind a Texel x. What do you mean they hold everybody else back?

the reason below average lambs do better than they should on the grid is because the best lambs don’t get the premium they should comparatively. They legislate for the shite in other words.

It doesn’t end there though, the grid price influences the live price, so the more poor lambs there are hung up the bigger the impact on everybody.

 

[Ysgythan]

Ours regularly outsell Texels and Suffolks at the market.
Do you think buyers don't know what they are buying

Generally that’s not the case, but if you’re the beneficiary of the exception that proves the rule, good luck to you. You’re obviously a good operator.

 

[M-J-G]

Generally that’s not the case, but if you’re the beneficiary of the exception that proves the rule, good luck to you. You’re obviously a good operator.

I'd say I'm pretty average.
Mostly home bred rams off home bred ewes with lambs finished off grass, all pretty basic stuff here.

 

[Woolless]

the reason below average lambs do better than they should on the grid is because the best lambs don’t get the premium they should comparatively. They legislate for the shite in other words.

It doesn’t end there though, the grid price influences the live price, so the more poor lambs there are hung up the bigger the impact on everybody.

I've heard it all now. So unless we're producing 3/4 Texels or similar we're letting everyone else down? I know you're a Texel man but FFS...

From what I've read, the EUROP grid isn't a particularly good indication of meat yield anyway. I have no axe to grind against Texels. I use them a bit myself. What I will say is that Hampshires are ahead of them on ability to finish on grass and, I would be confident, eating quality. Both these traits are going to become increasingly important IMO.

 

[Cab-over Pete]

Whilst I’m not going to disagree with @Ysgythan that poor lambs drag down the system, because I wouldn’t know whether that’s the case or not, surely any breed can produce poor lambs? Even some Texels. Dad had a few over the years and one especially threw poor lambs. Shame, he was a nice tup, but his lambs were poor. Same with a Charolais he tried and a Suffolk now and


I’ve never had a hamp lamb grade lower than an R. Worst looking lambs I’ve ever sent to Farmers Fresh was a pair of scrappy cades whose mother died and we couldn’t catch them for days. Even they scraped into an R grade.

I’m not sure how anybody could comment on a breed if they haven’t tried them and I’m not sure Hampshire Downs could be blamed for dragging down the whole EUROP system.

 

[Woolless]

Whilst I’m not going to disagree with @Ysgythan that poor lambs drag down the system, because I wouldn’t know whether that’s the case or not, surely any breed can produce poor lambs? Even some Texels. Dad had a few over the years and one especially threw poor lambs. Shame, he was a nice tup, but his lambs were poor. Same with a Charolais he tried and a Suffolk now and


I’ve never had a hamp lamb grade lower than an R. Worst looking lambs I’ve ever sent to Farmers Fresh was a pair of scrappy cades whose mother died and we couldn’t catch them for days. Even they scraped into an R grade.

I’m not sure how anybody could comment on a breed if they haven’t tried them and I’m not sure Hampshire Downs could be blamed for dragging down the whole EUROP system.

Yes, mine out of Easycares are consistently R, some U and the odd E.

The biggest market for lamb, the abattoirs that kill for supermarkets, generally want R2 and R3L carcasses. If they did want E grade lambs, then they would pay a premium for them as presumably some places that kill for export etc do.

 

[Ysgythan]

I'd say I'm pretty average.
Mostly home bred rams off home bred ewes with lambs finished off grass, all pretty basic stuff here.

f**king hell, how bad are the Texels and Suffolks?

(no half measures in going for pariah status here )

 

[Ysgythan]

I've heard it all now. So unless we're producing 3/4 Texels or similar we're letting everyone else down? I know you're a Texel man but FFS...

From what I've read, the EUROP grid isn't a particularly good indication of meat yield anyway. I have no axe to grind against Texels. I use them a bit myself. What I will say is that Hampshires are ahead of them on ability to finish on grass and, I would be confident, eating quality. Both these traits are going to become increasingly important IMO.

This reminds me of a Nuffield scholar’s report I read. Maternal sheep aren’t rewarded by the EUROP grid...so it was time to scrap the EUROP grid...

It may not be (probably isn’t) a perfect and equitable system, but it’s the one currently in play.

 

[Ysgythan]

Whilst I’m not going to disagree with @Ysgythan that poor lambs drag down the system, because I wouldn’t know whether that’s the case or not, surely any breed can produce poor lambs? Even some Texels. Dad had a few over the years and one especially threw poor lambs. Shame, he was a nice tup, but his lambs were poor. Same with a Charolais he tried and a Suffolk now and


I’ve never had a hamp lamb grade lower than an R. Worst looking lambs I’ve ever sent to Farmers Fresh was a pair of scrappy cades whose mother died and we couldn’t catch them for days. Even they scraped into an R grade.

I’m not sure how anybody could comment on a breed if they haven’t tried them and I’m not sure Hampshire Downs could be blamed for dragging down the whole EUROP system.

It’s not the breed, or particularly that breed, it’s the “clever” farmers who think they’re gaming the system.

Who sells dead here but hasn’t sent the end of season lorry load off, variously out of spec “but sod it, it’s now somebody else’s problem...?“

 

[M-J-G]

fudgeing hell, how bad are the Texels and Suffolks?

(no half measures in going for pariah status here )

I had second draw pure and cross Hampshire lambs outweigh and outsell pure Suffolk last year, and I know that they lamb before us.

 

[Cab-over Pete]

It’s not the breed, or particularly that breed, it’s the “clever” farmers who think they’re gaming the system.

Who sells dead here but hasn’t sent the end of season lorry load off, variously out of spec “but sod it, it’s now somebody else’s problem...?“

So if it’s “not the breed or particularly that breed“, and we can all agree that any breed can throw poor lambs, do you mind if I ask you to explain why your only word to describe Hampshire Downs was “shite” ?

Especially as you also say that every farmer has sent off a load of out of spec tail enders to clear out. They’re not all using Hampshire Downs and, as several have said, they have a good growth rate so it’s unlikely the Hampshire Downs will be among any tail enders.

I’m not looking for a fall out, just a bit disappointed that you’ve condemned them but don’t seem to have any experience of them yourself. If you have, and they haven’t performed, maybe you bought a poor ram?

 

[Sandpit Farm]

Processors don’t like them. That’s why they get hammered live, which is usually as good an indication as you need. Somebody will be along to say it makes little difference on the hook without realising it’s not that they do better, they hold everybody else back.

How do you mean? Are you talking KO%? How does anybody really know what KO% lambs sold live achieve? I guess there are market reports but lets face it, if your LW scales are weighing light - your KO looks good and your market PR is bolstered by the seemingly high per kg price. .... perhaps I am a cynic.

I suppose the Ramcompare data does show Texels to have a remarkable carcass but I can't imagine you would trust those data. Incidentally, they show that Hamps have remarkable 'days to slaughter' figures. So If you are interested in these data, you'd have to weigh up what translates to profit, speed of growing/finishing or Kill Out.

My experience of Hamps is that processors DO like them. Especially the early ones. I suspect the culture of wool on their heads is something that is convenient for 'buyers' as it pays quite nicely the other end.

 

[Sandpit Farm]

The thing I like about Hamps is that after the first draw you can have quite a wide weight draft. You can send some lambs at 36kg... that is a positive in my book as you can fill loads and take pressure off grazing, providing more forage for the tailenders to get them finished.

 

[Woolless]

This reminds me of a Nuffield scholar’s report I read. Maternal sheep aren’t rewarded by the EUROP grid...so it was time to scrap the EUROP grid...

It may not be (probably isn’t) a perfect and equitable system, but it’s the one currently in play.

Yes, it's the system in play and it should reward your sheep but according to you it doesn't. And that's my fault? It doesn't reward eating quality either which should be everyone's problem given falling lamb consumption.

Were you knocked over by a Hampshire tup as a child or something?