'Hang Nelson Mandela'

[Walterp]

Like Walter Winchell, I have learned it is important to be kind to everyone on the way up; you’ll meet the same people on the way down.

No doubt David Cameron has learned the same thing. In the 1980's he was involved with the Federation of Conservative Students, which achieved the rare distinction of being shut down by Norman Tebbit for being too extreme. Poster campaigns advocating 'Hang Nelson Mandela' gained widespread publicity, and disapproval.

Interestingly, some Conservative politicians supported the proposal to execute Mr Mandela, on the grounds that he was a lefty, seditious, lawyer - commie troublemakers deserved hanging, rather more than a deeply unjust system deserved abolition. I wonder what Nelson Mandela thought Conservative politicians deserved?

In times to come, knee-jerk Right Wing views oft-expressed today on TFF will sound just as anachronistic as the idea of executing "A great light ...in the world. Nelson Mandela was a hero of our time." (David Cameron, in 2013).

Lefty treason often develops into mainstream politics, and I suggest that farmers and their union representatives serve their own interests best if they act accordingly. A Labour-led Government is now highly likely, but nowhere do I see farmers' leaders adopting more egalitarian attitudes, aligning themselves with the views of the coming generation, or distancing themselves from those who have led the country into a maze of self-contradictions.

This deficiency wouldn't matter, except that other bodies - whose interests often conflict with those of UK agriculture - have already spread the political risk, and are equally at home in Southside as they are in Westminster when it comes to agriculture policy.

It is time farmers caught up with the zeitgeist, rather than condemn it.

 

[Farmer Roy]

that is one great difference I have seen between the agricultural industries of our two countries . . .

 

[wasted years]

Despite everything that the Tories are doing at the minute and the shambles that they have developed, labour still don't look popular and the Liberals are still on the canvas.
I think TM will go to the country with the finished BXiT deal and the country will reject it and stay in the EU as we are.

 

[Martin Holden]

Despite everything that the Tories are doing at the minute and the shambles that they have developed, labour still don't look popular and the Liberals are still on the canvas.
I think TM will go to the country with the finished BXiT deal and the country will reject it and stay in the EU as we are.

BBC question time last night was one of the most deeply argued debates on the Brexit issue for quite sometime. I agree with your sentiments. We are falling between the decision which is no mans land. Theresa May is, I’m sorry to say “getting it wrong”. Labour are sat on the fringes desperate for an election for their own gain, nothing more. As I sat watching it I actually became furious towards David Cameron and I guess the Torres. They created this whole referendum issue and now they can’t deal with it as the party were split over the matter and have been for years. Theresa May took on a poisoned chalice as pm after Dave shuffled off with his ball as he didn’t like what the electorate decided. I am more than disappointed in him. The debate raging on TV last night should have been taking place before the referendum not now! Politics has done this country a great disservice. No wonder the Americans voted for Trump as they had had enough of traditional politics. What options does the UK have?

 

[Pond digger]

Like Walter Winchell, I have learned it is important to be kind to everyone on the way up; you’ll meet the same people on the way down.

No doubt David Cameron has learned the same thing. In the 1980's he was involved with the Federation of Conservative Students, which achieved the rare distinction of being shut down by Norman Tebbit for being too extreme. Poster campaigns advocating 'Hang Nelson Mandela' gained widespread publicity, and disapproval.

Interestingly, some Conservative politicians supported the proposal to execute Mr Mandela, on the grounds that he was a lefty, seditious, lawyer - commie troublemakers deserved hanging, rather more than a deeply unjust system deserved abolition. I wonder what Nelson Mandela thought Conservative politicians deserved?

In times to come, knee-jerk Right Wing views oft-expressed today on TFF will sound just as anachronistic as the idea of executing "A great light ...in the world. Nelson Mandela was a hero of our time." (David Cameron, in 2013).

Lefty treason often develops into mainstream politics, and I suggest that farmers and their union representatives serve their own interests best if they act accordingly. A Labour-led Government is now highly likely, but nowhere do I see farmers' leaders adopting more egalitarian attitudes, aligning themselves with the views of the coming generation, or distancing themselves from those who have led the country into a maze of self-contradictions.

This deficiency wouldn't matter, except that other bodies - whose interests often conflict with those of UK agriculture - have already spread the political risk, and are equally at home in Southside as they are in Westminster when it comes to agriculture policy.

It is time farmers caught up with the zeitgeist, rather than condemn it.

My father always said that farmers had nothing to fear from a Labour government. That may well have been true whilst governments of all colours considered food production important, but that’s no longer the case.

As a landowner, I’d be particularly concerned if JC gets the top job, and discovers his grand plans require funding.

 

[DrWazzock]

What does the OP have to say about the usual pattern of swift and seemingly irreversible decline, nepotism and corruption that seems to prevail wherever his commie heroes have wrested power back from the evil white colonialists?

 

[Bald Rick]

Nothing wrong with hanging a few lawyers from time to time.

Still don't know how they dream up their hourly rates. And as for barristers ......

 

[Martin Holden]

My father always said that farmers had nothing to fear from a Labour government. That may well have been true whilst governments of all colours considered food production important, but that’s no longer the case.

As a landowner, I’d be particularly concerned if JC gets the top job, and discovers his grand plans require funding.

Going back 40-60 years ago I think your fathers thoughts were about right. I also agree with your sentiments about a future Labour administration. They would borrow and increase debt. Our country has a big issue - we are overcrowded and don’t produce to export enough to bring a positive balance of trade. Labour think they can boost the economy but all they want to do is increase public spending. We need more manufacturing here and curb the population. Another post on TFF summed up our crammed Island recently - France has not many more inhabitants but 5 x the land mass which I know includes mountains but they are far more spread out. The UK is full to overflowing. We can’t keep stealing green belt to build more houses

 

[Jackov Altraids]

Must refrain.....be strong......where's my therapist's number.....

The thing is, many of your posts line up a couple of random points in history which you try to draw a line between in order to predict a point in the future.
There are people with extreme views in all walks of life and we can all be misguided at times.
We all also have to eat and drink and I'm sure farmers will continue to work under whatever conditions they find themselves in, as they have since they first cared for the more useful plants and animals.
It is 'borderline racist' to suggest that farmers are somehow less egalitarian than the general population and yet again, you share your friend Blairs style of argument that "I'm being completely reasonable ergo anyone disagreeing is being utterly unreasonable" because you lack the understanding of the opposite argument and the facts to counter it.
Brexit [for I assume this is the crux of the matter] is rather a unique situation. People with the same ideologies may have voted differently while others with opposite views may have voted the same way for different reasons. What is clear is that it would have been better to have created a body seperate from government to negotiate the deal. Maybe the best plan would have been for that body to have been entirely made up of remainers with the idea that they should get the best deal possible so that the people could choose that deal or no deal.
Now where is that telephone number......

 

[Farfrae]

What does the OP have to say about the usual pattern of swift and seemingly irreversible decline, nepotism and corruption that seems to prevail wherever his commie heroes have wrested power back from the evil white colonialists?

Let me guess where you get your information from? A right wing press perchance? 'Commie' is of course used as a slur but hey ho, nothing new there. Whilst there are undoubtedly socialist governments that have failed for these reasons (just as there are right wing regimes that have failed similarly), the vast majority have failed because the USA (and it's lackeys) impose sanctions to make sure they fail' Venezuela is a prime example. Americans and the UK to a lesser extent have been trained by decades of Cold War propaganda to look for any confirmation that ‘socialism means poverty.’

If you really want some balance can I suggest reading 'Exposing Lies of the Empire' by Andre Vitchek (not theBritish Empire BTW if the title worries you) but why bother reading around the subject when the western media can spoon feed you propaganda?

Going back 40-60 years ago I think your fathers thoughts were about right. I also agree with your sentiments about a future Labour administration. They would borrow and increase debt. Our country has a big issue - we are overcrowded and don’t produce to export enough to bring a positive balance of trade. Labour think they can boost the economy but all they want to do is increase public spending. We need more manufacturing here and curb the population.

You also seem to be believing the propaganda. Let's look at the facts about debt (below)?

Overcrowded? Do you mean by that all those immigrants we colonised, told that they were now British and then look surprised when they came to work as labourers at our request fueling the stock market growth to keep the elite, bankers and city boys in champagne?

The problem everyone is failing to grasp is that the planet is overcrowded, that those we subjugated and robbed in the third world are now wanting more of their share of the finite spoils which means those in the richer countries (us) will have to do with less.

I still pee myself laughing though when farmers complain about governments public spending and debt then trouser £3bn a year of public money, do not pay business rates and have preferential IHT treatment 'to help keep it in the white, 'British' family'.

 

[Martin Holden]

Let me guess where you get your information from? A right wing press perchance? 'Commie' is of course used as a slur but hey ho, nothing new there. Whilst there are undoubtedly socialist governments that have failed for these reasons (just as there are right wing regimes that have failed similarly), the vast majority have failed because the USA (and it's lackeys) impose sanctions to make sure they fail' Venezuela is a prime example. Americans and the UK to a lesser extent have been trained by decades of Cold War propaganda to look for any confirmation that ‘socialism means poverty.’

If you really want some balance can I suggest reading 'Exposing Lies of the Empire' by Andre Vitchek (not theBritish Empire BTW if the title worries you) but why bother reading around the subject when the western media can spoon feed you propaganda?



You also seem to be believing the propaganda. Let's look at the facts about debt (below)?
View attachment 693056

Overcrowded? Do you mean by that all those immigrants we colonised, told that they were now British and then look surprised when they came to work as labourers at our request fueling the stock market growth to keep the elite, bankers and city boys in champagne?

No, I don’t mean that at all. In general the UK is close to overcrowded I don’t draw any distinction from where and who - it’s a general statement.

The problem everyone is failing to grasp is that the planet is overcrowded, that those we subjugated and robbed in the third world are now wanting more of their share of the finite spoils which means those in the richer countries (us) will have to do with less.

Economics dictate that an equal world is nigh on impossible. You need buyers and sellers. To think that every country could have a positive balance of trade is folly. I think you fail to grasp that a rapidly growing population is problem in the making

I still pee myself laughing though when farmers complain about governments public spending and debt then trouser £3bn a year of public money, do not pay business rates and have preferential IHT treatment 'to help keep it in the white, 'British' family'.

 

[Pond digger]

Going back 40-60 years ago I think your fathers thoughts were about right. I also agree with your sentiments about a future Labour administration. They would borrow and increase debt. Our country has a big issue - we are overcrowded and don’t produce to export enough to bring a positive balance of trade. Labour think they can boost the economy but all they want to do is increase public spending. We need more manufacturing here and curb the population. Another post on TFF summed up our crammed Island recently - France has not many more inhabitants but 5 x the land mass which I know includes mountains but they are far more spread out. The UK is full to overflowing. We can’t keep stealing green belt to build more houses

Agree with all that.

 

[PSQ]

It is time farmers caught up with the zeitgeist, rather than condemn it.

Another post where all farmers get tarred by Walters ‘mile wide’ brush...

Have you got anything new to say, or should we just chalk your irascible rants down to senility and advancing age?

 

[Pond digger]

Let me guess where you get your information from? A right wing press perchance? 'Commie' is of course used as a slur but hey ho, nothing new there. Whilst there are undoubtedly socialist governments that have failed for these reasons (just as there are right wing regimes that have failed similarly), the vast majority have failed because the USA (and it's lackeys) impose sanctions to make sure they fail' Venezuela is a prime example. Americans and the UK to a lesser extent have been trained by decades of Cold War propaganda to look for any confirmation that ‘socialism means poverty.’

If you really want some balance can I suggest reading 'Exposing Lies of the Empire' by Andre Vitchek (not theBritish Empire BTW if the title worries you) but why bother reading around the subject when the western media can spoon feed you propaganda?



You also seem to be believing the propaganda. Let's look at the facts about debt (below)?
View attachment 693056

Overcrowded? Do you mean by that all those immigrants we colonised, told that they were now British and then look surprised when they came to work as labourers at our request fueling the stock market growth to keep the elite, bankers and city boys in champagne?

The problem everyone is failing to grasp is that the planet is overcrowded, that those we subjugated and robbed in the third world are now wanting more of their share of the finite spoils which means those in the richer countries (us) will have to do with less.

I still pee myself laughing though when farmers complain about governments public spending and debt then trouser £3bn a year of public money, do not pay business rates and have preferential IHT treatment 'to help keep it in the white, 'British' family'.

Graphs need consideration in context of what else is going on/wrong at the time. I see the sharp upwards trend started under Labour, but then again.....

Undoubtedly the world is overpopulated, but that doesn’t mean we should ignore the issue in our own country. All the worlds political claptrap seems of minuscule importance when measured against the health of the planet. The first politician to give the issue the measure of prominence it deserves, will receive my fullest attention. Until then, it’s all just noise.

 

[Tom.6420]

Why do these threads get left in the Ag topics. It should be moved to the brexit and politics section.

 

[Ashtree]

All great empires came to total end game collapse!
The construct of the British Empire gradually fell away from about 1920 to the final brick was pulled away by the Chinese in 1997 when they took back Hong Kong.
But of course Britain itself still survived. That would be the last part to unravel and effectively devour itself.
That is what we are now witnessing before our eyes ..... the final agony, the final death throes of Brittanica!!!! The poisonous febrile political system stretching right through the two main political parties, is nothing more than a symptom of the underlying collapse of the last remaining remnants of the empire.
It’s game over!!!!

 

[Hampton]

Let me guess where you get your information from? A right wing press perchance? 'Commie' is of course used as a slur but hey ho, nothing new there. Whilst there are undoubtedly socialist governments that have failed for these reasons (just as there are right wing regimes that have failed similarly), the vast majority have failed because the USA (and it's lackeys) impose sanctions to make sure they fail' Venezuela is a prime example. Americans and the UK to a lesser extent have been trained by decades of Cold War propaganda to look for any confirmation that ‘socialism means poverty.’

If you really want some balance can I suggest reading 'Exposing Lies of the Empire' by Andre Vitchek (not theBritish Empire BTW if the title worries you) but why bother reading around the subject when the western media can spoon feed you propaganda?



You also seem to be believing the propaganda. Let's look at the facts about debt (below)?
View attachment 693056

Overcrowded? Do you mean by that all those immigrants we colonised, told that they were now British and then look surprised when they came to work as labourers at our request fueling the stock market growth to keep the elite, bankers and city boys in champagne?

The problem everyone is failing to grasp is that the planet is overcrowded, that those we subjugated and robbed in the third world are now wanting more of their share of the finite spoils which means those in the richer countries (us) will have to do with less.

I still pee myself laughing though when farmers complain about governments public spending and debt then trouser £3bn a year of public money, do not pay business rates and have preferential IHT treatment 'to help keep it in the white, 'British' family'.

It's all about context and without it, that graph is meaningless.
For example. If I was running my business at a loss, but selling land to make it break even, would that make me a good businessman?
Gordon brown ran the country a loss but sold the gold reserves to balance the payments (for record low prices and in times of record Uk economic growth). Did that make him a good Chancellor?

 

[Tom.6420]

All great empires came to total end game collapse!
The construct of the British Empire gradually fell away from about 1920 to the final brick was pulled away by the Chinese in 1997 when they took back Hong Kong.
But of course Britain itself still survived. That would be the last part to unravel and effectively devour itself.
That is what we are now witnessing before our eyes ..... the final agony, the final death throes of Brittanica!!!! The poisonous febrile political system stretching right through the two main political parties, is nothing more than a symptom of the underlying collapse of the last remaining remnants of the empire.
It’s game over!!!!

It always seems like the leftys who have to hark on about the empire. The rest of us have moved on thank goodness. Though ironically the same leftys have no problem with the EU empire.

 

[JP1]

Why do these threads get left in the Ag topics. It should be moved to the brexit and politics section.

They don't Tom. Most of us work full time. I just logged on and moved it. I don't get reports on the App but it still helps if you flag them with a report if you have any concerns. Moved now - we can't compel posters to post on any particular thread topic

 

[Walterp]

Interesting.

The point I am actually making is that t makes more sense for UK farmers to advance their interests as food producers (and to identify how that is also in the national interest) rather than to seek to favour one political party interest over another.

A supplemental question is whether Labour might - as it always used to be - more advantageous for UK farming than the Conservatives.

It won't be, if farmers keep on going around slagging off Gordon Brown and Jeremy Corbyn.