Have any of the religious direct drillers been ploughing or tilling this time?

well they should do unless they are hypocrites because its arable farming that does the damage to the soil full stop.unless you include building sites etc.....That's from Cotton growing to maize and all thats in between.

Well managed PP doesnt .

Yes arable farming is a bit more of an extraction industry which is why people are using dd to reduce the impact and the input
 

ajd132

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Suffolk
we havnt resorted to ploughing. we didn't get quite as much drilled as we had planned about 13% less but its by no means a disaster. there is ploughed land round here that has a reasonable crop in it but you can see every wheeling and compaction now. that will cost to sort out long term. we have caused no soil damage so wont be spending thousands on metal and diesel next year trying to sort issues out. I am happy with where we are, happily getting off the cultivation treadmill.
 

Two Tone

Member
Mixed Farmer
Theres loads of flaws with the nitrous oxide debate.

Can we purport that if Loddington had successfully direct drilled a crop then they would magically have more nox emissions than if they left it stubble all winter?
I fear you are doing Dr Alistair Leake an enormous injustice!

He will show you that at Loddington, they have successfully grown OSR crop by using DD, which IIRC is something you have struggled with.
He can show good evidence that CSFB is vastly reduced using DD and has a good explanation and reason as to why this is the case.

I’m fairly certain that we can purport that anything done at Loddington is pretty good science and well researched.

Indeed, it is people like Dr Alister Leake that we rely on to come up with proper scientific unbiased research and fact, rather than what are mostly biased opinions.


Quite frankly, when it comes to opinions, I often wonder how the human race has survived this long!
Especially when it comes to feeding ourselves.
 
I fear you are doing Dr Alistair Leake an enormous injustice!

He will show you that at Loddington, they have successfully grown OSR crop by using DD, which IIRC is something you have struggled with.
He can show good evidence that CSFB is vastly reduced using DD and has a good explanation and reason as to why this is the case.

I’m fairly certain that we can purport that anything done at Loddington is pretty good science and well researched.

Indeed, it is people like Dr Alister Leake that we rely on to come up with proper scientific unbiased research and fact, rather than what are mostly biased opinions.


Quite frankly, when it comes to opinions, I often wonder how the human race has survived this long!
Especially when it comes to feeding ourselves.

Not really doing him an injustice. Im not actually sure of the nitrous oxide research they've done at Loddington.

Im saying that the nitrous oxide debate isnt particularly conclusive either way. Yes waterlogged soils will probably respire less and then produce more nox but thats not really a cultivation issue. We know for a fact ploughed soils lose carbon and emit co2 though - that is v conclusive.

But I dont think you can say that because you plough then ergo you will release less nitrous oxides. Its just too simplistic - does a stubble also release nitrous oxides? Thats all a no tilled crop is - a stubble with a crop in!
 

JCfarmer

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
warks
DDERS don't become like the left wing' bbc' pushing veganism and then avoiding to admit to eating meat!
Still some vegans hiding me thinks, is it that bad that you turned the soil???
 
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Around here every system is waterlogged on heavy land when we get wet days
the best looking fields have an oat cover drilled in August ,early drilled rape that has avoided the fleabeetle or wheat planted in September


as has been quoted before ,on heavy land plant wheat early what ever the system sort the black grass by rotation of crops and chemicals and drilling dates
 

britt

Member
BASE UK Member
Around here the plough and combi drilled fields look by far the best.
You can't be that far from us, where those that have ploughed and combied that I have spoken to, admit that about half of what has gone in won't make a crop, have incurred costs, will be very slow to dry out to replant in spring and will take a lot of repairing over a number of years starting this autumn.
With the benefit of hindsight they would have been better off leaving heavy land as stubble.
Light land was worth planting, but has to carry the cost of the failed crops and soil damage.
It comes down to knowing your soil and what it can cope with and bit of luck with the following weather.
There are also many acres which have been ploughed since Christmas which weren't planted and are now really waterlogged and would have been better left as stubble.
 
I fear you are doing Dr Alistair Leake an enormous injustice!

He will show you that at Loddington, they have successfully grown OSR crop by using DD, which IIRC is something you have struggled with.
He can show good evidence that CSFB is vastly reduced using DD and has a good explanation and reason as to why this is the case.

I’m fairly certain that we can purport that anything done at Loddington is pretty good science and well researched.

Indeed, it is people like Dr Alister Leake that we rely on to come up with proper scientific unbiased research and fact, rather than what are mostly biased opinions.


Quite frankly, when it comes to opinions, I often wonder how the human race has survived this long!
Especially when it comes to feeding ourselves.

Just reread the article in FW. Mr Leake says "opting for less intensive cultivations like zero till will lead up to a build of carbon in the surface layer, however as you go down the soil profile the organic matter content is lower. With a plough based system you see the opposite as it buries organic matter 20cm".

Are they doing long term no till trials at this place or not?
 

YELROM

Member
Location
North Yorkshire
Around here the plough and combi drilled fields look by far the best.
17599F8F-4D0F-461C-A169-2EE96BE06441.jpeg
DF34C3B7-7349-4744-8125-6FB1E8187041.jpeg
64AB2BDA-85CE-4D9E-ABAE-132ADA4DD710.jpeg
15C729C5-51AC-4D7B-8D88-FEF2C4A1A9BF.jpeg
Two photos of my direct drilling and two of the neighbour plough and combi drilled wheat planted a fortnight ago.It might of looked better if he power harrowed it for a third time ?
 
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Steevo

Member
Location
Gloucestershire
Planted 30% of my winter wheat direct in October and only just managed to get that in without making a mess. Rest was planted in early/mid Nov by a contractor with plough and combi drill and looks a picture.

Does resorting to the plough 16 years after selling mine bother me? Not in the slightest. I'm pleased to have a crop in the ground that looks well and I don't think the plough will have done any harm at all. It's a case of using the best tool available at the time.

Will I use the plough again next year - very unlikely indeed. Why move 6" soil when you don't need to. Anyone who cultivated their fields this year just has wet boggy soup to play with.

Very few neighbours around me have anything planted at all. Even the contractors who planted my fields said they couldn't have done what they were doing for me for themselves and nobody else was calling them up wanting them to do any work. Uncultivated stubbles that haven't had any more than the top 1" or so touched for 15 years made all the difference to being able to travel.
 
what matters is the total profit made over a number of year
damaging the soil in one year is paid for in others equally having no crop in one year need double the margin in the second year
all systems including notill damage soil when tractors are in the field when it is too wet

with notill the zero cost on cultivations is every year and acumulates in the bank ,reduces the capital requirement and increase the return on investment
 
Just reread the article in FW. Mr Leake says "opting for less intensive cultivations like zero till will lead up to a build of carbon in the surface layer, however as you go down the soil profile the organic matter content is lower. With a plough based system you see the opposite as it buries organic matter 20cm".

Are they doing long term no till trials at this place or not?

His is an accurate summary of the evidence. And that evidence derives too from long-term trials. I have a paper from a 41 year no-till vs tillage comparison. No evidence there that ploughing is worse on this measure. There's lots of benefits of no-till, but this is not clearly one of them.
 

Attachments

  • 41yrs no-till versus cultivation.pdf
    1.2 MB · Views: 0

Two Tone

Member
Mixed Farmer
With regards the No-til -v- ploughing situation, we are arguing over which is our favourite child.
And seriously heading towards an identical war as to the organic -v- conventional debacle!

If you can successfully do No-til, fantastic and the best of luck to you.
If you find that ploughing suits you and your farm better, then carry on.

But for goodness sake lets not turn it into a situation where some are so intrenched by whichever system they choose that they over influence others outside farming to legislate against one form in favour of the other!

How dare you?
 

Bury the Trash

Member
Mixed Farmer
With regards the No-til -v- ploughing situation, we are arguing over which is our favourite child.
And seriously heading towards an identical war as to the organic -v- conventional debacle!

If you can successfully do No-til, fantastic and the best of luck to you.
If you find that ploughing suits you and your farm better, then carry on.

But for goodness sake lets not turn it into a situation where some are so intrenched by whichever system they choose that they over influence others outside farming to legislate against one form in favour of the other!

How dare you?
Exactly good post.

Besides I like planting and growing stuff, however it's done, boring old untouched permanent pasture does nothing for me I'm afraid .
 

SFI - What % were you taking out of production?

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Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

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As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
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