Have any of the religious direct drillers been ploughing or tilling this time?

[Lexion1000]

And exactly what is the problem that autosteer solves ?
You have a driver that can look where they are going and turn the wheel guide the tractor.
I can see the point on a sprayer or fert spreader where there are no tramlines to follow, but then tramlines solve that problem.
From what I've seen autosteer failures (incorrect setting or signal loss ) cause more drilling misses than driver errors.

The main benefit of autosteer imo is that you don’t have to concentrate on doing the steering. Sounds obvious, but being able to concentrate on what the drill is doing instead means you will end up with tidier drilling. You also quickly notice how much less tiring it is working with autosteer, especially in the dark. It is 100% worth it.

 

[Henry B]

You forgot to mention a minimum of 10% to 20% of increase in work rate put plus a reduction in fuel, seed, fert and spray use.

 

[britt]

Are tractor drivers really that bad that that they overlap by 10-20% average ? Maybe "upto" that on the runs where you are trying to eat you sandwiches on the go (You may well have spotted such runs in my drilling Henry).
Does any body buy an extra 10- 20 % seed, fert or spray to allow for such bad driving ?
I get that there are times when it's "useful", but I am yet to be convinced that it covers its cost, particularly if you pay for signal correction.

 

[Will Blackburn]

Are tractor drivers really that bad that that they overlap by 10-20% average ? Maybe "upto" that on the runs where you are trying to eat you sandwiches on the go (You may well have spotted such runs in my drilling Henry).
Does any body buy an extra 10- 20 % seed, fert or spray to allow for such bad driving ?
I get that there are times when it's "useful", but I am yet to be convinced that it covers its cost, particularly if you pay for signal correction.

Without signal correction it’s better than human error, driver fatigue is underrated, there must be 20%+ more daily output available to users?

 

[Lexion1000]

Are tractor drivers really that bad that that they overlap by 10-20% average ? Maybe "upto" that on the runs where you are trying to eat you sandwiches on the go (You may well have spotted such runs in my drilling Henry).
Does any body buy an extra 10- 20 % seed, fert or spray to allow for such bad driving ?
I get that there are times when it's "useful", but I am yet to be convinced that it covers its cost, particularly if you pay for signal correction.

There’s a significant amount of time saved in turning more efficiently and working in lands which would be part of that 10%.

I don’t use less fert or chem because of it though. Section control on the sprayer definitely leads to big reductions in those though.

It depends how much you are doing whether it would be worth it, if you’re doing 100 acres it might be borderline, if you’re doing 2000 it’s undoubtedly worth it.

 

[britt]

Without signal correction it’s better than human error, driver fatigue is underrated, there must be 20%+ more daily output available to users?

If you have an average error of 20% you must be overlapping by upto 40% that's 2.4m on a 6 meter machine ! Nobody can be that bad !
Working in lands of alternate runs and then filling in back across the field means you do double the distance on each turn, although you may travel faster, that's double the traffic and compaction on the headland. Just leave a wider headland for easier turning and spread out the area travelled on.

 

[Brisel]

You forgot to mention a minimum of 10% to 20% of increase in work rate put plus a reduction in fuel, seed, fert and spray use.

No reduction in variable costs, but you’re putting it where it should be and can do the right dose instead of 10+% less to account for the overlap. Your tramlines are then the correct width not 22-23m if they are meant to be 24m.

 

[Fish]

Are tractor drivers really that bad that that they overlap by 10-20% average ? Maybe "upto" that on the runs where you are trying to eat you sandwiches on the go (You may well have spotted such runs in my drilling Henry).
Does any body buy an extra 10- 20 % seed, fert or spray to allow for such bad driving ?
I get that there are times when it's "useful", but I am yet to be convinced that it covers its cost, particularly if you pay for signal correction.

I to was a sceptic 8 years ago, but after the first run down the field under auto steer, I was a total convert. Now 8 years later, all machines are full auto under rtk, tractors, sprayer and combine, never want to drive a machine again.

 

[ajd132]

Is it really worth anyone’s time having an argument about auto steer?

 

[Brisel]

Is it really worth anyone’s time having an argument about auto steer?

Just trying to dispel some myths and share experiences. Isn't that what TFF is for?

 

[ajd132]

Just trying to dispel some myths and share experiences. Isn't that what TFF is for?

I know just seems fairly pointless we all know the benefits apart from the die hard deniars!

 

[JCfarmer]

What about ploughing without autosteer!?

 

[britt]

As Brisel says, sharing views is what TFF is all about.
The thread took this direction in response to the statement "90% of new Agricultural Technology is sold to us to solve a problem that doesn't actually exist". My point was that most of the justification for spending money on autosteer is vastly exaggerated, as shown on posts above.
I do see the benefits of it, but I feel that many farmers have been misled by salesmen into investing more than they will ever get back.
Very wide kit doing big areas, high value crops, contract spraying, may see a viable return. Lexion 1000 above says 100 acres, I think it would be well over 1000.
Incorrect tramline widths ? the drill driver should have been doing their job properly.
Throw in the time lost to tractors hitting in field trees or telegraph poles because the driver was on social media instead of looking where they were going, or just awaiting repair ( a farmer I know could not steer a tractor manually when the autosteer packed up, loosing 4 days, awaiting repair ).
I'm not a denier, I just think that too many people are spending too much money solving a problem that is not as big as they are led to beleive.
But if they are the toys you choose, that's up to you.

 

[7610 super q]

As above. Below a certain acreage tech and no-till machinery doesn't stack up. That's not to say it's wrong, just that it doesn't pay. There must be a few on here that make their living by running old kit that's bought and paid for. It's such a shame some look down on others style of farming. I see Lord Clive of Stafford and his followers want to see ploughing banned. Great. That would make my small scale operation unviable.

 

[Clive]

As above. Below a certain acreage tech and no-till machinery doesn't stack up. That's not to say it's wrong, just that it doesn't pay. There must be a few on here that make their living by running old kit that's bought and paid for. It's such a shame some look down on others style of farming. I see Lord Clive of Stafford and his followers want to see ploughing banned. Great. That would make my small scale operation unviable.

I have no desire to see ploughing banned, it has a place for sure and have never said otherwise as I recall ? - I think it will become uneconomic however on all but higher-value crops like roots, veg and salads etc

Notill machinery does not have to be expensive, especially if you don't have big areas to cover? - my CO originally cost 4500 euros pus a couple of thousand to convert and that drill could cope with 2k acres I suspect - you can buy used Moores , 750a, Simtech for less than the price of a power harrow combi drill or rapid etc

There is always a reason not to do things if you try to find them

 

[Brisel]

As above. Below a certain acreage tech and no-till machinery doesn't stack up. That's not to say it's wrong, just that it doesn't pay. There must be a few on here that make their living by running old kit that's bought and paid for. It's such a shame some look down on others style of farming. I see Lord Clive of Stafford and his followers want to see ploughing banned. Great. That would make my small scale operation unviable.

What acreage would that be? @Simon C and @RTK Farmer don’t have more than 400-500 acres each and are doing no-till very nicely.

 

[7610 super q]

What acreage would that be? @Simon C and @RTK Farmer don’t have more than 400-500 acres each and are doing no-till very nicely.

50. I've been looking over the last few years, and can't see me acquiring a drill for less than £10k ( refurbed, not interested in some junk out of the nettles which needs £££££ spent on wearing metal )
I'd estimate it would take a decade to pay that back with money saved from diesel usage. That's assuming there'd be a 50% saving ?. Would a 100hp 2wd tractor pull a drill ? If not more £££££.
And how much would my plough, ph, drill be worth S/H ? Fudge all if some get their way.

 

[Brisel]

What did you pay for your 750A box drill @SilliamWhale ? Can you remind us how many acres of arable you’ve got too please?

 

[JCfarmer]

As above. Below a certain acreage tech and no-till machinery doesn't stack up. That's not to say it's wrong, just that it doesn't pay. There must be a few on here that make their living by running old kit that's bought and paid for. It's such a shame some look down on others style of farming. I see Lord Clive of Stafford and his followers want to see ploughing banned. Great. That would make my small scale operation unviable.

I don't think they want to see it banned, remarks about ploughing have been said in jest 7610 super q. Well to the best of my knowledge.

 

[SilliamWhale]

What did you pay for your 750A box drill @SilliamWhale ? Can you remind us how many acres of arable you’ve got too please?

£6500. You can get a NZ style aitchison for not much more. 330 acres

As Brisel says, sharing views is what TFF is all about.
The thread took this direction in response to the statement "90% of new Agricultural Technology is sold to us to solve a problem that doesn't actually exist". My point was that most of the justification for spending money on autosteer is vastly exaggerated, as shown on posts above.
I do see the benefits of it, but I feel that many farmers have been misled by salesmen into investing more than they will ever get back.
Very wide kit doing big areas, high value crops, contract spraying, may see a viable return. Lexion 1000 above says 100 acres, I think it would be well over 1000.
Incorrect tramline widths ? the drill driver should have been doing their job properly.
Throw in the time lost to tractors hitting in field trees or telegraph poles because the driver was on social media instead of looking where they were going, or just awaiting repair ( a farmer I know could not steer a tractor manually when the autosteer packed up, loosing 4 days, awaiting repair ).
I'm not a denier, I just think that too many people are spending too much money solving a problem that is not as big as they are led to beleive.
But if they are the toys you choose, that's up to you.

Tramlines are no good. We need plants in the tramlines. My drill wont even do tramlines so gps is a godsend. It cost me £5k. Not cheap but not too bad - cheaper than a new plough!! But for ploughing is a process that creates more problems and an expensive one too