Have some of that Chris Packham

Raider112

Member
This in my opinion is what needs to be clarified by Natural England. If the latrine for badgers of a given sett proves positive for tb then that should be good enough evidence for Natural England to issue a licence to cull all the inhabitants of that sett. So long as the testing is carried out by an approved testing agency then I cannot see how Natural England could object. If they did object then it should be a trial case to ascertain the procedure for culling infected animals. I would have thought the NFU CLA type people would have pushed for this already.
But that would mean bringing logic and common sense into it so not a cat in hell's chance.
 

egbert

Member
Livestock Farmer
This in my opinion is what needs to be clarified by Natural England. If the latrine for badgers of a given sett proves positive for tb then that should be good enough evidence for Natural England to issue a licence to cull all the inhabitants of that sett. So long as the testing is carried out by an approved testing agency then I cannot see how Natural England could object. If they did object then it should be a trial case to ascertain the procedure for culling infected animals. I would have thought the NFU CLA type people would have pushed for this already.

I believe it was pushed for, but there is legal murky water (how do you prove which individuals within a sett are poxy, frinstance) and hence the cull is how it is.

I've thought for some time that the more rational element among the badgerists ought to capitulate, and try and direct us at targeting sick setts.
But that isn't going to happen.
 

renewablejohn

Member
Location
lancs
I believe it was pushed for, but there is legal murky water (how do you prove which individuals within a sett are poxy, frinstance) and hence the cull is how it is.

I've thought for some time that the more rational element among the badgerists ought to capitulate, and try and direct us at targeting sick setts.
But that isn't going to happen.

Thats the point if you can prove one individual has tb then you assume by association all others within the sett have tb. No difference than the farm culls in the past with mass pits and fires.
 

traadilooar

Member
Location
Isle of Man
Don’t want to go to far off topic, but we don’t have badgers on island so know nothing about them.
But what stops you shooting them? You hear about badger protection/antis threatening people in cull areas, but also hear off a lot of pykies digging and dogging badgers do the antis not harass and confront the pykies?
 

Henarar

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Somerset
Don’t want to go to far off topic, but we don’t have badgers on island so know nothing about them.
But what stops you shooting them? You hear about badger protection/antis threatening people in cull areas, but also hear off a lot of pykies digging and dogging badgers do the antis not harass and confront the pykies?
that would be worth watching
 

Cowabunga

Member
Location
Ceredigion,Wales
There's just too many of them. Too many badgers and not enough pykies. Never thought I'd see myself print that!
Farmers are generally law abiding in the face of dire consequences if caught doing a bit of illicit culling and even if they are, which they are overwhelmingly not, the rogering badgers are multiplying faster and disease risk areas spreading.
 
Is one effect of the badger cull not that the affected area increases in size through the disturbance causing infected badgers to move away from their home areas (the perturbation effect)?

So while culling might benefit farmers within the cull area, it would be at the expense of farmers outwith the cull area?
 
That is why all roaming badgers that turn up in farmyards should be caught tested and culled
Back in the days when badgers cold be controlled any that ventured into farm yards were often culled
They learned to avoid those areas
Badger lived away were left alone
Nowadays badger do not fear people round here

We all want healthy badgers and healthy cattle
Everything in moderation
 
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renewablejohn

Member
Location
lancs
Is one effect of the badger cull not that the affected area increases in size through the disturbance causing infected badgers to move away from their home areas (the perturbation effect)?

So while culling might benefit farmers within the cull area, it would be at the expense of farmers outwith the cull area?

Thats why the whole sett needs to be culled if infection found so that the remainers dont infect other areas if they move.
 

C.J

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
South Devon
Is one effect of the badger cull not that the affected area increases in size through the disturbance causing infected badgers to move away from their home areas (the perturbation effect)?

So while culling might benefit farmers within the cull area, it would be at the expense of farmers outwith the cull area?

There you go thinking like Beatrix potter again !

Badgers do not move to escape a cull - Perturbation is , the infected ones from out side a cull , moving in to the new territory with more available food.
 
There you go thinking like Beatrix potter again !

Badgers do not move to escape a cull - Perturbation is , the infected ones from out side a cull , moving in to the new territory with more available food.


So how would uninfected badgers moving into an infected area cause an increase in the geographical extent of the infected area?

Either way, the result is the same, an increase in the size of the area infected.
 

Raider112

Member
Is one effect of the badger cull not that the affected area increases in size through the disturbance causing infected badgers to move away from their home areas (the perturbation effect)?

So while culling might benefit farmers within the cull area, it would be at the expense of farmers outwith the cull area?
That's why the cull areas have been designed as much as possible with hard borders, to offset this theory. In reality perturbation is probably a myth, created for a reason, any burrowing mammal will instinctively head underground when in danger, not run so far that it has no idea how to get home again. Ideally you take every Badger out in an infected sett and seal it up to stop others moving in and leave healthy ones alone.
 
That's why the cull areas have been designed as much as possible with hard borders, to offset this theory. In reality perturbation is probably a myth, created for a reason, any burrowing mammal will instinctively head underground when in danger, not run so far that it has no idea how to get home again. Ideally you take every Badger out in an infected sett and seal it up to stop others moving in and leave healthy ones alone.


That doesn't sound at all realistic or practical.

Where I live is TB free. If TB gets here it won't be brought by badgers. It will be brought by farmers moving infected cattle.
 

Raider112

Member
That doesn't sound at all realistic or practical.

Where I live is TB free. If TB gets here it won't be brought by badgers. It will be brought by farmers moving infected cattle.
I'm in Cumbria, odd cases crop up here and as you say cattle movements are to blame, thankfully they are short lived as testing and culling reactors can control it comfortably and swiftly, however a hot spot developed where they couldn't eradicate it and TB was found in badgers. Thankfully they included this area in this years cull so hopefully as it's such a small area they can control it as Cumbria is one of the main livestock regions in the country.
 

Henarar

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Somerset
That doesn't sound at all realistic or practical.

Where I live is TB free. If TB gets here it won't be brought by badgers. It will be brought by farmers moving infected cattle.
Unless you don't live on the mainland that is bull 1t
Give it time and it will get to wherever there are badgers
How else has it got in closed herds

But don't worry you go on believing what you like
 
Unless you don't live on the mainland that is bull 1t
Give it time and it will get to wherever there are badgers
How else has it got in closed herds

But don't worry you go on believing what you like


Badgers might be the means of transmission to close herds within an affected area, but they aren't the means of transmission from infected areas to discontiguous unaffected areas. That's caused by farmers moving infected cattle.
 

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quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

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