Hay bale veg

[Pasty]

Didn't want to derail the current veg thread but this year we have had a total disaster from raised beds. 1 lettuce plant has come through. Courgettes, strawbs are being decimated by slugs. Toms are still green but at least growing. Our first year with them so we'll see. Onions are doing well (I hope). Look good on top anyway.

I'm looking for a better method. More practical. We've always had good strawberry crops in our beds but this year did them in grobags and they have been decimated. I need to get them higher up. Maybe hanging baskets.

But was also looking at straw / hay bale growing. Easier on the back and has got to deter a good few slugs hasn't it? Anyone do this?

I just want to grow some bleddy veg. Clearly haven't got the touch as yet.

 

[KMA]

son has tried haybale veg, very disappointing.

Definitely moving my strawbs to hanging baskets for next year

I've got a decent number of toms but like you they're green.

Brassicas have had a hammering, combo of fly larvae, caterpillars and not planting them out into big enough containers quick enough.

Radish - first seeds I got were pee poor germination and a lot of bolters changed variety to Scarlet Globe and going well now will sow another 48 tomorrow

Spring Onion - started with Guardsman with underwhelming germination, just sown 96 White Lisbon, so fingers crossed

Beetroot - started off with boltardy with mixed results changed to Kestrel which seems to be going well

 

[Pasty]

Most seem to do straw bale but hay seems more sensible in terms of composting down. Hopefully polytunnel going in later this year so that will the next thing to get wrong!

 

[Kidds]

To have that much of a disaster you must have got almost all the fundamentals wrong.
Provided you have adequate water, drainage and nutrients stuff does just grow. Of course pest and disease can take them but that is a management thing too.
Slugs are easy enough to control by chemical, biological or physical methods on a raised bed scale, they are not that hard on a field scale either. Caterpillars are similarly controlled.
Attention to detail is what matters, you can't just leave them to get on with things and expect to come back weeks later to harvest.

In my experience as long as the drainage, irrigation and nutrients are sorted growing in border soil (the ground) has the best results with the least inputs.

 

[Pasty]

To have that much of a disaster you must have got almost all the fundamentals wrong.
Provided you have adequate water, drainage and nutrients stuff does just grow. Of course pest and disease can take them but that is a management thing too.
Slugs are easy enough to control by chemical, biological or physical methods on a raised bed scale, they are not that hard on a field scale either. Caterpillars are similarly controlled.
Attention to detail is what matters, you can't just leave them to get on with things and expect to come back weeks later to harvest.

In my experience as long as the drainage, irrigation and nutrients are sorted growing in border soil (the ground) has the best results with the least inputs.

I'm not going to argue with you although I feel we did put the effort in. We had some heavy weed burden in the beds last year and what I did was cover them with black plastic (DPM) over winter which seemed to have a good effect. I'm wondering though if this also encouraged slugs?

I'm very wary of how cheap veg is in the shops and it's important to me that we can grow it for the same or cheaper. Every grobag, every nematode thing, every little thing cuts into that margin and when you get a failed crop, you realise you would have been better off buying from Riverford. Not that it will stop me. I want to grow veg for cheap or free and I think it's possible. I am just a mile off that in terms of knowledge.

 

[Kidds]

I am a professional fruit and veg grower and I think I am pretty good at what I do. I still don't think I can produce stuff cheaper than I can buy it in the supermarket, better yes, cheaper no.

If you do buy growbags then buy the best you can find which is often represented by the price. You must also accept they take a lot more management, particularly regarding irrigation. Growing in the soil takes much less management as it is much more forgiving, again, particularly regarding irrigation.

You can manage slugs with just hand picking or a beer trap. I would use pellets myself but understand some would prefer not to.

As for covering with plastic, what's wrong with weeding or hoeing? No idea how big your beds are but I can keep weeds down with a hoe on an acre in my spare time if I want. It comes back to that attention to detail and management thing.

ps. I have a tomato and 4 chilli plants in a growbag. They are shite

 

[Pasty]

I am a professional fruit and veg grower and I think I am pretty good at what I do. I still don't think I can produce stuff cheaper than I can buy it in the supermarket, better yes, cheaper no.

If you do buy growbags then buy the best you can find which is often represented by the price. You must also accept they take a lot more management, particularly regarding irrigation. Growing in the soil takes much less management as it is much more forgiving, again, particularly regarding irrigation.

You can manage slugs with just hand picking or a beer trap. I would use pellets myself but understand some would prefer not to.

As for covering with plastic, what's wrong with weeding or hoeing? No idea how big your beds are but I can keep weeds down with a hoe on an acre in my spare time if I want. It comes back to that attention to detail and management thing.

ps. I have a tomato and 4 chilli plants in a growbag. They are shite

Thank you. Back to the drawing board. I have failed this year. Next year will be better.

 

[Kidds]

I say that most years with one crop or another.

 

[KMA]

I do find the beer traps effective for slugs and use the cheapest shite I can find (tesco value bitter) fortunately I don't think the slugs are too discerning, need to sue quite a few and they do need kept an eye on and changed or refreshed fairly regularly, especially after rain.

Can't afford a polytunnel for a couple of years but have plans for a pretty large grow-cage using old 16' scaffolding poles rescued from a cubicle house for the structure. Not sure what mesh to use for the bottom 1m along the side but I guess will need to be pretty fine to keep the root flies out. So far the only thing that has really failed has been the brassicas. Even the broad bean seedlings I took pity on at a charity car boot (ok they were v. cheap) have surprised me and have a lot of flowers this year broad beans next year I might try peas and runner beans from seed

It's interesting trying different varieties and seeing what survives my mismanagement system best.

 

[Chasingmytail]

Look into Charles Dowding - he has vids on youtube, FB and books. No dig methods. Im currently reading salads and the book is superb. This is my 1st year of proper growing and been lucky. The polytunnel has been superb and worth every penny. I buy all organic seeds (Tamar etc) and bought plugs (organic and Rocket gardens) I quickly read up on what plants to avoid. The orientation of the beds is important, the mix of manure and soil left for 1 yr to break down. Mistake I made was putting seeds into the ground (poly tunnel wasnt ready) apart from the peas and beans wont to that again everything will be module next yr. Hubby refused to do raised beds outside due to costs and time plus slug problems so we dug long beds and brought in soil and manure. These beds will have another layer of homemade compost over the winter.

Slugs are a menace - I used the nemaslug, traps and ferric. These are in raised beds and checked at night. Netting seems to be worth a look at as long as the sides are tight. My Brassicas had a terrible bashing from slugs - all came out but some are tiny. Moth damage (net next year), My onions are massive, peas and beans cracking, carrots poor and lettuce very hit and miss.

so for next year I would concentrate on making rich beds, Keep grass cut tight around the area (another argument with hubby), build poly with raised beds and thick concrete slabs. Make sure you buy quality seeds and do modules. Or buy plugs from good suppliers Rocket was excellent. Use biological controls when needs be. Use this forum for growing - http://www.growfruitandveg.co.uk/.

If you are part of the FB - Items for sale in your area worth keeping eye on people selling greenhouse, pots, module trays and old tools. Fleabay for polytunnel frame honestly all you do is buy the plastic separately and build the sides and doors.

Finally do follow really good growers like Charles Dowding. There are plenty of books but this type of growing suits us his books give experiments. Whereas people like Monty Don are very nice but all is rosy in his garden not in depth enough.

I find it fustrating but keep going what you have done wrong can be put right next yr. I am a true believer in the quality and nutritional value of homegrown foods and use FB to show what I'm up to - people love it!

 

[Chasingmytail]

Back on the straw bale thing - dont bother its not very successful we tried growing spuds in a layered system but it took too long for the shoots to appear and the weight of the layers made the whole thing slow. Our spuds are 5mm and the slugs have ravished the plants its been an expensive lesson to grow spuds like this on the lawn. Prefer to import compost into raised bunds next year and earth up. If you have slugs you need to look around the area and make sure its clean and tidy with grass cut to the bear min. No piles of crap, layers of plastic, stones and rocks etc the area should be pristine (mine isnt). Charles Dowding frowns on growbags as slugs love to nestle around the edges and under the bags. You could try pots in rows, copper edging?

 

[Kidds]

If you have slugs you need to look around the area and make sure its clean and tidy with grass cut to the bear min. No piles of crap, layers of plastic, stones and rocks etc the area should be pristine (mine isnt).

I'm sure hens or ducks have a useful role in this department.

 

[Chasingmytail]

We had some heavy weed burden in the beds last year and what I did was cover them with black plastic (DPM) over winter which seemed to have a good effect. I'm wondering though if this also encouraged slugs?

Yes and yes. I too have weeds but many swear by the lasagna method of layering muck/cardboard/green waste - you can google this and supposed to be very successful. You can then put out any weeds without shaking the soil, once you move the soil you are releasing more seeds.

 

[Kidds]

What is this heavy over winter weed burden you both talk about?
Apart from cleavers I can't think of any weeds that germinate in the winter and any existing weeds should be dealt with as they come up not left to grow until winter comes along.
If you are working in raised beds there can't be any more seeds than you start with unless you let weeds go to seed in there or they blow in. Not many seeds blow in on the grand scale of things. Hoe off or pull out weeds as you see them and it just gets better all the time. I would never hesitate to pull a weed out for the sake of disturbing seeds.

A very good saying regarding weeds, "one years seeding means seven years weeding". Don't ever let them set seed and weeds such as groundsel should be removed even if they have only just flowered as they will still set seed.

 

[Blaithin]

Straw is recommended over hay as the bales should have less weed seeds in them than hay. Therefore less weeding of your bale. I'm curious to try straw bales but I'm not convinced they're a good plan for a root veggie. Just some top crops like cucs, peas, beans, etc.

For deterring pests I like companion planting. Slugs don't like alliums so plant those around and amongst whatever plants the slugs love. Your lettuce, strawberries, etc. You still get yummy veggies but without the hassle of applying things and hunting slugs.

 

[KMA]

I'm only in my second year of trying to grow our own veg so am happy to pick everyone elses brains, cabbage white and slugs I can deal with root fly are another issue. I'm also a bit of a guilty of experimenting with ways of growing things some work beyond my expectations others are a lesson learned.

I'll be putting in a lot more garlic next year which seem to have helped my son's veg, he's put them between the rows, I use a quite a bit in cooking anyway. So would garlic and onions (same family as alliums) around my brassicas help?

I reckon you need around one beer trap/sq metre this year to keep the slugs under some sort of control, the position and how you set them in the ground seems to be important, my most effective one is an old marge tub with the lip about 5mm above the surrounding area with the soil filled in around it and filled to the point where they can reach the beer but can't get back out when they fall in.

I also have 2 bins, one for compostable stuff the other for things I don't want anywhere near my soil.

 

[Chasingmytail]

What is this heavy over winter weed burden you both talk about?

Here I dont have raised beds apart from the poly. I have an endless battle with silverweed (trailing) and marestail. Last year we left the beds as the growing was a disaster the beds were covered but the muck hadnt broken down enough, there was a huge weed burden. Dont forget it wasnt cold last year - very mild so the seedlings caused huge burdon. There is no way I would leave my soil bare.

 

[Kidds]

Silverweed and marestail are certainly hard work and as you say they are an endless battle.

Why wouldn't you leave your soil bare? Bare is better than weeds in a veg patch imo and I wouldn't hesitate.

 

[KMA]

Weeds are one of the reasons I grow in containers, if a problem appears I can just bin the plant & soil, sterilise the container and start again.

 

[Blaithin]

Cover crop. Plant lettuce, spinach, kale, etc in between. Or marigolds which are awesome all around bug guardians. Nothing says you need to plant in rows and nothing says you have to leave bare dirt

And yes, alliums include onion, garlic, shallot, leeks... Any of them should work against slugs.