Health and safety zzzzz

[Try to succeed]

So I’ve just had a meeting with bank manager and a health and safety rep from said bank trying to sell their h+s packages. Prior to the meeting I naively thought ‘here we go...’. But I found it quite interesting and almost feel why haven’t I signed up to one of these subscriptions previously, even though I only employ the odd student through harvest and do the rest of the year myself. It sounds like it would stand me in good stead if heaven forbid we did have an accident on the farm, even to a visitor. It’s one of those things that are probably forgotten about until something happens. Is anyone else going to join a subscription like this? I suppose we’re a bit of a unique industry in that we don’t have the money or inclination to create a position of h+s advisor in our businesses. Just wondered what everyone else was doing to limit likelihood or cover themselves?

 

[Shutesy]

What do you get in one of these H + S packages? Annual check of the farm and some recommendations?

 

[Try to succeed]

What do you get in one of these H + S packages? Annual check of the farm and some recommendations?

It depends on which package you go for. But 100k indemnity, crisis team in case of incident, advice and inspections on risks and signage etc, online templates in your own account that you can build up and add to; this also confirms when your staff or you log in to read or fill something out. It’s all a load of boll*cks and hoops to jump through really but I keep seeing these accidents in farming press and makes you think. Just shows you’ve done your due diligence I suppose. Working in a different industry before coming back to farming I’ve seen how other industries treat it, and compare that to the stereotypical farmer then there’s no wonder we get a big bill when something happens.

 

[MattR]

Which bank?

 

[Still Farming]

Bank just watching themselves in case they can't get their money back?

 

[Try to succeed]

Bank just watching themselves in case they can't get their money back?

Think the idea is business protection. Manager isn’t pushy either way.

 

[Still Farming]

Bet small print don't cover too much also ?

 

[Formatted]

People do take the pee out of Health and Safety but it shouldn't be a barrier to do things, it should be a reminder of how can we do what we need to do safely.

I'm a technical member of the institute of occupational health and safety, a lot of the requirements you'll already be doing but its the paperwork that goes alongside it that is important in the case of accident.

 

[bitwrx]

Rather than sign up to a subscription service so that you can jump through some perceived hoop giving you the illusion of indemnity against the effects of an industrial accident, have you considered spending some money to actually make the job safer?

The other day I was home at my parents place while the contractors were there to put on slurry. Noticed the two lads were connecting pipes to the stirrer while it was running with a completely f**ked PTO guard. Apparently it had been like that for a while and although they had a spare shaft and guard at the yard, they'd not thought to fit it. It wasn't even on the job list.

It beggars belief that we still can't even get the absolute basics right, as operators, and as employers. But it's just not on.

There's loads of good learning out there about how to work in ways that make life safer; the attitude of industrial safety being about signs and hoop jumping just completely misses the point. It's about taking reasonably practicable measures to make work safe. That is you, me and all out friends and family going home in one piece at the end of the day.

I'm probably going to get a pasting as a noob having a go about safety, but I don't really care. It's too important.

(Although I apologise in advance if all your gear is all tippy top and up together, all your operators are fully trained and follow the sensible rules and everyone feels like they can stop any activity that doesn't feel safe.)

 

[SRRC]

If it's Natwest Mentor, then, while it needs effort, it's pretty good.
It's not done for you, you and your staff need to engage with it. Filling in forms won't make it safe, but it's a pretty good starting point and if it does go badly wrong then at least you have something with which to offer up in your defence.
If nothing else you have a moral obligation to send your staff home in one piece,

 

[Spud]

NFU version of the above here, update every three years.

 

[The Ruminant]

Health and Safety is an interesting area. Historically, agriculture has been a mixture of macho (“I’ll be alright”) and suffering in silence (“no-one likes a whinger”).

However there are far too many avoidable deaths and injuries in the industry and so a wholesale change of culture is required. It’s difficult, because changing a lifetime’s habits is hard. Persistence, persistence, persistence, the only way.

An example: our forklifts have 6-monthly safety checks, carried out by a firm through our NFU insurance. We pay nothing for it. The last check threw up a few faults which could, potentially, endanger the lives of those using it and which needed to be done before the machine could be permitted to be used again.

One of the older workers was grumbling, saying the inspectors were far too pedantic, and saying he could find a guy who, if we paid a small fee, would check the machine and sign it off as safe. He couldn’t see the checks were for his benefit, to keep him and his co-workers safe. I’m not blaming him, he thought the inspector was over-zealous and he was trying to save us money - a small fee for a pass certificate rather than a large bill for remedial work. This was his culture and changing it a hard and ongoing task

 

[Barleycorn]

Health and Safety is an interesting area. Historically, agriculture has been a mixture of macho (“I’ll be alright”) and suffering in silence (“no-one likes a whinger”).

However there are far too many avoidable deaths and injuries in the industry and so a wholesale change of culture is required. It’s difficult, because changing a lifetime’s habits is hard. Persistence, persistence, persistence, the only way.

An example: our forklifts have 6-monthly safety checks, carried out by a firm through our NFU insurance. We pay nothing for it. The last check threw up a few faults which could, potentially, endanger the lives of those using it and which needed to be done before the machine could be permitted to be used again.

One of the older workers was grumbling, saying the inspectors were far too pedantic, and saying he could find a guy who, if we paid a small fee, would check the machine and sign it off as safe. He couldn’t see the checks were for his benefit, to keep him and his co-workers safe. I’m not blaming him, he thought the inspector was over-zealous and he was trying to save us money - a small fee for a pass certificate rather than a large bill for remedial work. This was his culture and changing it a hard and ongoing task

He may have been right though. We are heavily into H & S due to taking on an apprentice a year or two ago. Whilst most of it is very worthwhile you do find the odd tradesman who will milk it, as 'elf 'n safety can be an excuse to exploit. We had a fire extinguisher guy who wanted a load of extinguishers replaced due to a bit of surface rust (of course he was to supply the new ones).
I'm all for safety, but not gold plated anal.

 

[Try to succeed]

He may have been right though. We are heavily into H & S due to taking on an apprentice a year or two ago. Whilst most of it is very worthwhile you do find the odd tradesman who will milk it, as 'elf 'n safety can be an excuse to exploit. We had a fire extinguisher guy who wanted a load of extinguishers replaced due to a bit of surface rust (of course he was to supply the new ones).
I'm all for safety, but not gold plated anal.

I was speaking to someone from an ag parts business yesterday and he said were being fobbed off with the fire extinguisher set up. He reckons in the small print it says the extinguishers must be checked by someone the business owner/management deem ‘competent’. He thinks I can deem myself competent as long as I keep a written check of the extinguishers and buy new ones as needed. So no need to be paying 100’s for someone to come and write on the stamp on them

 

[Try to succeed]

Rather than sign up to a subscription service so that you can jump through some perceived hoop giving you the illusion of indemnity against the effects of an industrial accident, have you considered spending some money to actually make the job safer?

The other day I was home at my parents place while the contractors were there to put on slurry. Noticed the two lads were connecting pipes to the stirrer while it was running with a completely fudgeed PTO guard. Apparently it had been like that for a while and although they had a spare shaft and guard at the yard, they'd not thought to fit it. It wasn't even on the job list.

It beggars belief that we still can't even get the absolute basics right, as operators, and as employers. But it's just not on.

There's loads of good learning out there about how to work in ways that make life safer; the attitude of industrial safety being about signs and hoop jumping just completely misses the point. It's about taking reasonably practicable measures to make work safe. That is you, me and all out friends and family going home in one piece at the end of the day.

I'm probably going to get a pasting as a noob having a go about safety, but I don't really care. It's too important.

(Although I apologise in advance if all your gear is all tippy top and up together, all your operators are fully trained and follow the sensible rules and everyone feels like they can stop any activity that doesn't feel safe.)

The problem with my set up is I do nearly everything and think I’m fairly safety aware. It’s the other partner who might try and operate a machine when needed who isn’t as aware or on the ball. I keep everything up to scratch in terms of guards etc but like o say others potentially won’t even get the basics right on the same premises. Then seasonal help just opens the door to all sorts of issues which I do my best to avoid but the potential for an incident is always there. You can’t do it all yourself at some times of the year

 

[Try to succeed]

If it's Natwest Mentor, then, while it needs effort, it's pretty good.
It's not done for you, you and your staff need to engage with it. Filling in forms won't make it safe, but it's a pretty good starting point and if it does go badly wrong then at least you have something with which to offer up in your defence.
If nothing else you have a moral obligation to send your staff home in one piece,

That’s the one. It would at least demonstrate you have given it thought, and not just thought about it and tell the judge ‘I promise I thought about it a couple of times’

 

[theboytheboy]

Health and Safety is an interesting area. Historically, agriculture has been a mixture of macho (“I’ll be alright”) and suffering in silence (“no-one likes a whinger”).

However there are far too many avoidable deaths and injuries in the industry and so a wholesale change of culture is required. It’s difficult, because changing a lifetime’s habits is hard. Persistence, persistence, persistence, the only way.

An example: our forklifts have 6-monthly safety checks, carried out by a firm through our NFU insurance. We pay nothing for it. The last check threw up a few faults which could, potentially, endanger the lives of those using it and which needed to be done before the machine could be permitted to be used again.

One of the older workers was grumbling, saying the inspectors were far too pedantic, and saying he could find a guy who, if we paid a small fee, would check the machine and sign it off as safe. He couldn’t see the checks were for his benefit, to keep him and his co-workers safe. I’m not blaming him, he thought the inspector was over-zealous and he was trying to save us money - a small fee for a pass certificate rather than a large bill for remedial work. This was his culture and changing it a hard and ongoing task

Can you clarify,..your machines insured through NFU and NFU pay for the testing at no cost to you?

Seems to food to be true. I had them telling me I had to get brand new front loader tested when only a few weeks old and they certainly were not paying for it.

Not having a dig, I'm genuinely interested to see if I've misunderstood what your saying.

 

[betweenthelines]

Rather than sign up to a subscription service so that you can jump through some perceived hoop giving you the illusion of indemnity against the effects of an industrial accident, have you considered spending some money to actually make the job safer?

The other day I was home at my parents place while the contractors were there to put on slurry. Noticed the two lads were connecting pipes to the stirrer while it was running with a completely fudgeed PTO guard. Apparently it had been like that for a while and although they had a spare shaft and guard at the yard, they'd not thought to fit it. It wasn't even on the job list.

Did you tell them to go & get it fixed? Anything that happens on your (parents) property is their responsibility!

Personally, I'd look for another contractor as his reckless attitude is sure to permeate to his staff, who, as stated, are working on your parents' farm

If he doesn't care about his staff's safety..................

 

[Try to succeed]

Can you clarify,..your machines insured through NFU and NFU pay for the testing at no cost to you?

Seems to food to be true. I had them telling me I had to get brand new front loader tested when only a few weeks old and they certainly were not paying for it.

Not having a dig, I'm genuinely interested to see if I've misunderstood what your saying.

I have the same thing. Obviously factored in to the price somewhere along the way but they check cradle, tines, telehandler and lifting chain block in the workshop. Gets annoying sometimes but it is for the ‘greater good’.

 

[betweenthelines]

@bitwr, hope you told the contractors staff to get it fixed before they started work.

The liability rests with the occupier of the property (your parents) should their be an accident

Personally, I'd be looking for another contractor