Health and safety

thesilentone

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Cumbria
There are no excuses, the children's deaths were due to unnecessary risks being taken, especially the poor soul who fell from the tractor/handler and was run over. You cannot help but feel for the parents, and what they have to live with.

To suggest this is 'not really related to farming ' is utter nonsense.

Farming has a serious H&S problem, and the sooner we accept it the better, if not, the end result will be more unnecessary deaths.

It is all down to attitude............
 

Robt

Member
Location
Suffolk
Farming does not have a Health and Safety problem, it has an old(er) people working in dangerous environments problem.

@Goweresque sorry but i strongly disagree!

I am ashamed to read some of the replies on here! If those that dont think we have a massive attitude problem are the majorty..then we are in trouble
 

Goweresque

Member
Location
North Wilts
Farming does not have a Health and Safety problem, it has an old(er) people working in dangerous environments problem.

@Goweresque sorry but i strongly disagree!

I am ashamed to read some of the replies on here! If those that dont think we have a massive attitude problem are the majorty..then we are in trouble

How else do you explain the figures then? If the H&S 'problem' in farming was purely one of lack of adherence to rules and procedures, you would expect that the distribution of deaths would be random - as many people under 50 would die as over 50. In fact maybe more, depending on how many workers are in the relative groups. But that's not the case. As shown by the stats nearly 70% of fatalities are over 50 years old. And that happens year on year, its not a one off anomaly.

So I conclude that the problem lies in the age profile of the farming workforce, not the overall nature of H&S culture within the industry.

Its very easy as you get older to either not realise or purposely ignore the ageing process. Its blatantly obvious to anyone who has played sport that you slow down quite rapidly post age 35. Its about that point you get your arse handed to you by some young 20 something buck, and its brought home to you in a very brutal manner. And it only gets worse as you approach 50. I'm 48 and I'm VERY aware that I'm not as quick, as aware or as strong as I used to be. And as such you have to be realistic about what you can and can't do. The trouble is farmers are incredibly stubborn people and don't want to admit defeat, to accept the ageing process. And as medical science allows people to be in relatively good health well past retirement age, its very easy for people not to make the decision to step back from the physical work, and let younger more able people do it. And that is why they end up in these statistics, not some structural failure of H&S culture.
 

roscoe erf

Member
Livestock Farmer
How else do you explain the figures then? If the H&S 'problem' in farming was purely one of lack of adherence to rules and procedures, you would expect that the distribution of deaths would be random - as many people under 50 would die as over 50. In fact maybe more, depending on how many workers are in the relative groups. But that's not the case. As shown by the stats nearly 70% of fatalities are over 50 years old. And that happens year on year, its not a one off anomaly.

So I conclude that the problem lies in the age profile of the farming workforce, not the overall nature of H&S culture within the industry.

Its very easy as you get older to either not realise or purposely ignore the ageing process. Its blatantly obvious to anyone who has played sport that you slow down quite rapidly post age 35. Its about that point you get your arse handed to you by some young 20 something buck, and its brought home to you in a very brutal manner. And it only gets worse as you approach 50. I'm 48 and I'm VERY aware that I'm not as quick, as aware or as strong as I used to be. And as such you have to be realistic about what you can and can't do. The trouble is farmers are incredibly stubborn people and don't want to admit defeat, to accept the ageing process. And as medical science allows people to be in relatively good health well past retirement age, its very easy for people not to make the decision to step back from the physical work, and let younger more able people do it. And that is why they end up in these statistics, not some structural failure of H&S culture.
your waisting your breath he is too busy being ashamed
 

The Agrarian

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Northern Ireland
I admit that our approach to H&S is probably not what the executive want to see. They want a raft of protocols for this and that. A small business finds that a nonsense. Especially for the massive range of situations we find ourselves in over the course of a year. We rely on teaching and using common sense, which can then be applied to almost any situation. Very old fashioned. Not easy to put in print. And wouldn't be a good defence in front of a judge.
 

Robt

Member
Location
Suffolk
No, im not too busy being ashamed....
All i ever hear is... '' you youngsters have no common sense'' or ''H&S takes away common sense''
So how is it the older generation who HAVE common sense are dying?
Please explain rather than try to claim cheap points by taking pee out of me
 

puppet

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
sw scotland
How else do you explain the figures then? If the H&S 'problem' in farming was purely one of lack of adherence to rules and procedures, you would expect that the distribution of deaths would be random.

So I conclude that the problem lies in the age profile of the farming workforce, not the overall nature of H&S culture within the industry.

Its very easy as you get older to either not realise or purposely ignore the ageing process. And it only gets worse as you approach 50. And as medical science allows people to be in relatively good health well past retirement age, its very easy for people not to make the decision to step back from the physical work, and let younger more able people do it. And that is why they end up in these statistics, not some structural failure of H&S culture.

A bit of both. We do not have good adherence to H&S. There is a temporary site near me - gates shut, helmets, etc on at all times, reverse parking only, report to office on arrival. All of those should apply at silage operations for example. How many farmers have a briefing for the contractors first?
Physical work is fine as you get older but you really should not be falling off a roof or getting in a pen with a bull. Reflexes do slow but what should be the cut-off age?
 
Location
southwest
I've worked in farming and in industry and I have to say 90% of farmers have a total disregard for H&S. A few reasons being , the "it won't happen to me" attitude, "only stupid people have accidents" and the "I don't believe in H&S 'cos it costs too much" But the biggest reason (and most easily remedied) is the fact that farmers virtually never stop for a minute before doing something and say to themselves "What could go wrong, is there a better way of doing this?"
 

multi power

Member
Location
pembrokeshire
No, im not too busy being ashamed....
All i ever hear is... '' you youngsters have no common sense'' or ''H&S takes away common sense''
So how is it the older generation who HAVE common sense are dying?
Please explain rather than try to claim cheap points by taking pee out of me
Slower, less agile and can no longer do what they done when they were 25
 

The Agrarian

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Northern Ireland
I've worked in farming and in industry and I have to say 90% of farmers have a total disregard for H&S. A few reasons being , the "it won't happen to me" attitude, "only stupid people have accidents" and the "I don't believe in H&S 'cos it costs too much" But the biggest reason (and most easily remedied) is the fact that farmers virtually never stop for a minute before doing something and say to themselves "What could go wrong, is there a better way of doing this?"

But the last part is the part I consider to be the common sense attitude that can be applied to anything. I rarely look at a ladder or a roof or a yard full of cattle without thinking something like that. Heck, last thing I want is a kick or a squeeze or a broken back.
 

Highland Mule

Member
Livestock Farmer
Slower, less agile and can no longer do what they done when they were 25

But a properly designed task shouldn’t need any reliance on the speed of reaction from the worker. Age makes no difference to the ability to switch off the engine before you unblock the baler, or to wear a crash helmet when riding a quad bike.

If it’s only safe when done by a younger adult then it’s not really safe at all.
 

Highland Mule

Member
Livestock Farmer
How else do you explain the figures then? If the H&S 'problem' in farming was purely one of lack of adherence to rules and procedures, you would expect that the distribution of deaths would be random - as many people under 50 would die as over 50. In fact maybe more, depending on how many workers are in the relative groups. But that's not the case. As shown by the stats nearly 70% of fatalities are over 50 years old. And that happens year on year, its not a one off anomaly.

So I conclude that the problem lies in the age profile of the farming workforce, not the overall nature of H&S culture within the industry.

Its very easy as you get older to either not realise or purposely ignore the ageing process. Its blatantly obvious to anyone who has played sport that you slow down quite rapidly post age 35. Its about that point you get your arse handed to you by some young 20 something buck, and its brought home to you in a very brutal manner. And it only gets worse as you approach 50. I'm 48 and I'm VERY aware that I'm not as quick, as aware or as strong as I used to be. And as such you have to be realistic about what you can and can't do. The trouble is farmers are incredibly stubborn people and don't want to admit defeat, to accept the ageing process. And as medical science allows people to be in relatively good health well past retirement age, its very easy for people not to make the decision to step back from the physical work, and let younger more able people do it. And that is why they end up in these statistics, not some structural failure of H&S culture.

What’s the age profile of farm workers? If 70% are over 50, then it’s very easy to explain the distribution of deaths.
 

The Agrarian

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Northern Ireland
Splitting a pen of cattle in a crush yard is an inherently dangerous task. Not just anyone in the general population can do it. Would you say that if it's not safe for Grandpa to split up some limmys, then no one should do it at all?
 

Campbell

Member
Location
Herefordshire
H&SE can't help everyone.
I heard today of a train company being fined £1m plus costs for a safety signage problem. A passenger died of head injuries when leaning out of a train window while it was moving at speed. The conviction was because the warning signs, about the danger of leaning out of the windows, were not clearly enough displayed. Apparently, the guy who was killed was a long time train enthusiast..... :scratchhead:
 

Highland Mule

Member
Livestock Farmer
Splitting a pen of cattle in a crush yard is an inherently dangerous task. Not just anyone in the general population can do it. Would you say that if it's not safe for Grandpa to split up some limmys, then no one should do it at all?

How about using a shedder to separate them? Or feed them through the locking feed barrier and release one half and then the other? Or, since you highlight one breed in particular, maybe having cattle that are not so wild? The task can be designed safely, if you try hard enough.

How many 60 year old firemen rushing into burning buildings are there?

They still do risk assessment and task design, and certainly wouldn’t go into a dangerous situation unless another life depended on it. Are you really trying to compare the (over) production of a commodity to one of the emergency services? Nobody will die if you or I stop farming!
 

SFI - What % were you taking out of production?

  • 0 %

    Votes: 79 42.9%
  • Up to 25%

    Votes: 63 34.2%
  • 25-50%

    Votes: 30 16.3%
  • 50-75%

    Votes: 3 1.6%
  • 75-100%

    Votes: 3 1.6%
  • 100% I’ve had enough of farming!

    Votes: 6 3.3%

Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

  • 1,287
  • 1
As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
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