Heifer bullying

[sjewart]

Iv 3 heifers in a pen. Only had them 10 days but all seemed OK until a couple of days ago.

Now the 2 black ones won't leave the red one alone. She is the lightest but only by 26kg. The black ones hoover up all the feeding and wont even let her into the hay. She spends the day behind boofed up the backside and being kept constantly on the run.

Iv tried to feed her separately but she's too scared to come to me with the bucket. I haven't room to separate her.

Will it likely resolve itself or can I do anything?

 

[GTB]

Did the two black ones come from the same place? Don't think there is much you can do apart from separate them? Hopefully they won't be so bad after going outside.

 

[sjewart]

Did the two black ones come from the same place? Don't think there is much you can do apart from separate them? Hopefully they won't be so bad after going outside.

You see that's the thing...no! One black and the red one came from same place. The other black one came from elsewhere.

Sadly these will be in for another 6 weeks as im a.i.ing them now.

 

[GTB]

You see that's the thing...no! One black and the red one came from same place. The other black one came from elsewhere.

Sadly these will be in for another 6 weeks as im a.i.ing them now.

Sorry no idea how you can sort it i'm afraid.

Btw, did your heifer from last year get in calf in the end? (the one you put the bull in with)

 

[sjewart]

Sorry no idea how you can sort it i'm afraid.

Btw, did your heifer from last year get in calf in the end? (the one you put the bull in with)

Yes she did @gbt. Not due til early Sept but in calf none the less. Have to say though she did come back to the bull - it was the second bull we borrowed that got her in calf! This was taken today. She's on the left here.

 

[DrWazzock]

Chances are the black one that came with the red one used to be the boss. Then it was pushed into second place by the other black one who is now the new boss. The black one who is now second in command takes out its resentment of losing its command on the red one who is lower down the pecking order and the boss joins in.

That's what I've seen here. When the boss cow gets deposed by the bigger newcomer it takes it out on those below it, just like folk in an office. Not much you can do other than separate with some hurdles but they'll be alright when they go out and can put some distance between them.

It is very aggravating and it's tempting to set about the bullies, but I've never resorted to that. I've never found it lead to calving problems either.

Sometimes if the diet is high in energy such a molasses or there are oats in the mix it can make ours very lively.

 

[sjewart]

Chances are the black one that came with the red one used to be the boss. Then it was pushed into second place by the other black one who is now the new boss. The black one who is now second in command takes out its resentment of losing its command on the red one who is lower down the pecking order and the boss joins in.

That's what I've seen here. When the boss cow gets deposed by the bigger newcomer it takes it out on those below it, just like folk in an office. Not much you can do other than separate with some hurdles but they'll be alright when they go out and can put some distance between them.

It is very aggravating and it's tempting to set about the bullies, but I've never resorted to that. I've never found it lead to calving problems either.

Sometimes if the diet is high in energy such a molasses or there are oats in the mix it can make ours very lively.

Thank you, I think you've hit the nail on the head, well at least it makes sense to me.

I did take a stick out tonight and hit them over head when I put a bit feeding in spefically for the red heifer but she was too nervous to come in for it and I can't see that strategy working short or long term.

I can't really separate her as iv the pen set up with crush etc so I can get them a.i.'d easily.

Will she likely be OK 6 weeks inside with the other 2? Wee bit worried the stress she's under will lead to pneumonia or she'll get hurt.

Hoping they will settle down.

 

[ladycrofter]

You say they were okay for 10 days, that is plenty of time past from them just being introduced and initial problems. I think it is the change in the weather, they can smell grass growing, the birds are singing and teenage hormones are probably starting up. They are stir crazy.

Why are you keeping them in? AI them and turn out. Train them to a bucket just now and get them back in later if necessary. The situation you are describing is not a good one for trying to get catches on AI, it is hard enough in a peaceful herd. You are also running the risk of an injured heifer.

 

[ladycrofter]

Just saw your next post. Stop that. You will make the problem worse as you will add to the aggression already being shown, she will try to assert herself even more when you aren't there. You need to focus on keeping your heifer alive, forget what makes an easy life for you.

 

[tr250]

is it possible to put the 2 with some cows

 

[sjewart]

You say they were okay for 10 days, that is plenty of time past from them just being introduced and initial problems. I think it is the change in the weather, they can smell grass growing, the birds are singing and teenage hormones are probably starting up. They are stir crazy.

Why are you keeping them in? AI them and turn out. Train them to a bucket just now and get them back in later if necessary. The situation you are describing is not a good one for trying to get catches on AI, it is hard enough in a peaceful herd. You are also running the risk of an injured heifer.

Hmmm hadn't thought of that. Yes the change in weather could be it. Plus I put outside my two in calf heifers today which caused a bit of a commotion in the a.i. shed.

One heifer was a.i.'d yesterday but it will likely be 15 and 18 days from now before the other two are done.

We have no grass so I'm not desperate to get these out. Maybe put them out after they've all been a.i.'d once and bring them in again if they return but that's not easy with only one field split in 4 but no passageway to get them from top section to bottom.

 

[sjewart]

is it possible to put the 2 with some cows

I only have two in calf heifers which I put outside today as they need the exercise - one calves early July.

 

[ladycrofter]

Welcome to the nightmare.Turn them all out or you soon might not have a wall or gate left standing.

In your situation you will just need to get them all in whether you need to see all of them, or just one of them, don't even think about trying to separate them. Your have two powerful weapons in your cow handling arsenal 1) every cow's need to be in every other cow's business, and 2) the irresistible pull of the rattling bucket.

We designed our system with the feed barrier and troughs at the back of the shed. Everybody comes running for a snack, and then the one requiring attention gets hived off down the race and into the crush, or side pen or whatever. All happy. No one missing out on someone else's business. I run all ages together, bull, cows, heifers, youngstock. It is the only way to manage a small herd - as a family group.

 

[DrWazzock]

A few hurdles across the pen? Zig zag them so they don't go over? Fill a water bucket out the trough for the one. Bucket of feed and some fodder for it.

Or turn them out as ladycrofter says.

Or maybe just feed them some poor hay, no concentrates at the trough. Might calm them down and prevent confrontation over the cake.

It's frustrating right enough.

 

[DrWazzock]

Welcome to the nightmare.Turn them all out or you soon might not have a wall or gate left standing.

In your situation you will just need to get them all in whether you need to see all of them, or just one of them, don't even think about trying to separate them. Your have two powerful weapons in your cow handling arsenal 1) every cow's need to be in every other cow's business, and 2) the irresistible pull of the rattling bucket.

We designed our system with the feed barrier and troughs at the back of the shed. Everybody comes running for a snack, and then the one requiring attention gets hived off down the race and into the crush, or side pen or whatever. All happy. No one missing out on someone else's business. I run all ages together, bull, cows, heifers, youngstock. It is the only way to manage a small herd - as a family group.

You are right. Separation causes them to start reestablishing a new pecking order in the new subgroup, then it happens all over again when you re merge groups. I had the dominant cow in a pen with her calf and she tried to dig a hole to get out and attack the big heifer who was setting herself up as boss of the rest of the herd. When she did go back to the herd they nearly killed each other. Funny old things.

 

[DrWazzock]

Having said all that I don't see how partitioning of the red heifer would hurt as its already the lowest in the order and the other two already have their order sorted out. I suppose the boss could start taking it out on the other black one though I would thiught that unlikely as they'll both just keel eying up the red heifer behind the hurdles.

 

[GTB]

Welcome to the nightmare.Turn them all out or you soon might not have a wall or gate left standing.

Yes I think this is probably the best option. I'd probably turn them out with the two in-calf heifers and bring the whole lot inside whenever one needs AI. Maybe train them to come in for some feed, a tiny little bit won't do the in-calvers any harm.

 

[ladycrofter]

Think the red heifer will still suffer in the presence of the bullies in close quarters rather than outside. Cows can give the evil eye.

@DrWazzock as you say I also have had to carefully manage a few re-introductions when a cow has been isolated with a young calf. But the cows were all born here and recognise me as the back-scratcher and boss, and are trained to back off if I snap my fingers in their face. Sometimes extreme shouting and finger snapping is enough to stop a set-to. Of course, that only works if you are seen as the boss, you've got the confidence to get waded in and a really close gate to jump if it goes pear-shaped!

Bought-in heifers - no way!

 

[sjewart]

Thanks all. It's never black or white.... always different shades of grey.

I didn't want to put 5 big heifers out in the only small patch of ground I have because last year I did exactly that and the grass never grew due to it not getting a chance to get up in the first place.

Got sheep in the rest of the field just now as they need it.

 

[DrWazzock]

Yeah those pesky sheep. They have had every blade here as well.

Hope you get it sorted.