Heilmeier’s Catechism

[Ysgythan]

On the bit of Twitter which should really be on Linked In I saw somebody bragging about using this. I’d never heard of it so looked it up. I don’t know why, but it instantly brought EBVs to mind.

Did anybody bother to run performance recording through this before they kicked it off? If they had would they have bothered?

For me EBVs fail at point four and eight. Take up is still woeful, and the only measure of success is the EBVs themselves.

For us it didn’t pass point 6 or 7 either.

 

[topground]

This should be applied to any civil service activity.

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

This should be applied to any civil service activity.

Nothing would ever go ahead...

 

[Woolless]

View attachment 993789

On the bit of Twitter which should really be on Linked In I saw somebody bragging about using this. I’d never heard of it so looked it up. I don’t know why, but it instantly brought EBVs to mind.

Did anybody bother to run performance recording through this before they kicked it off? If they had would they have bothered?

For me EBVs fail at point four and eight. Take up is still woeful, and the only measure of success is the EBVs themselves.

For us it didn’t pass point 6 or 7 either.

Recording data and acting on results is what science is based on. I'm not saying the the execution of performance recording/EBVs is A1 but the basic premise is sound and it seems to me that Signet have upped their game recently.

The catechism is good though. It's basically common sense in bullet points.

 

[neilo]

View attachment 993789

On the bit of Twitter which should really be on Linked In I saw somebody bragging about using this. I’d never heard of it so looked it up. I don’t know why, but it instantly brought EBVs to mind.

Did anybody bother to run performance recording through this before they kicked it off? If they had would they have bothered?

For me EBVs fail at point four and eight. Take up is still woeful, and the only measure of success is the EBVs themselves.

For us it didn’t pass point 6 or 7 either.

Oh goody. We haven’t had a ‘I don’t need to measure to manage’ thread recently.

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

Oh goody. We haven’t had a ‘I don’t need to measure to manage’ thread recently.

You do. It's just that you need to know why you are doing it and what the desired outcome is. Often these days it appears to be simply to keep staff employed!

 

[Ysgythan]

The catechism is good though. It's basically common sense in bullet points.

That’s what we do on our fag packets, just not necessarily that regimented.

 

[Ysgythan]

Oh goody. We haven’t had a ‘I don’t need to measure to manage’ thread recently.

It’s getting harder to find an angle…

 

[neilo]

You do. It's just that you need to know why you are doing it and what the desired outcome is. Often these days it appears to be simply to keep staff employed!

But I do know why I performance record, and I do know my desired outcome. It doesn’t involve me employing staff, other than the ones I outsource work to at Signet, but I certainly don’t do it just to keep them employed!

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

But I do know why I performance record, and I do know my desired outcome. It doesn’t involve me employing staff, other than the ones I outsource work to at Signet, but I certainly don’t do it just to keep them employed!

Excellent. Then you, at least, aren't part of the problem.

Where do I find a bull EBV scored for growth from forage and eating quality, the criteria that I value?

 

[Ysgythan]

But I do know why I performance record, and I do know my desired outcome. It doesn’t involve me employing staff, other than the ones I outsource work to at Signet, but I certainly don’t do it just to keep them employed!

so you tick the boxes as an individual breeder or even on individual breeding decisions, but the problem is it doesn’t multiply up to an industry scale.

 

[neilo]

so you tick the boxes as an individual breeder or even on individual breeding decisions, but the problem is it doesn’t multiply up to an industry scale.

Why not? The results from RamCompare have (again) shown that it does work, down to primal cuts and lamb prices.

It won’t necessarily result in sheep with more of the cosmetic appeal that we, as breeders, like to admire, but it purely economic traits, it’s a tool that delivers if it’s used appropriately.

 

[neilo]

Excellent. Then you, at least, aren't part of the problem.

Where do I find a bull EBV scored for growth from forage and eating quality, the criteria that I value?

I don’t have anything to do with beef (apart from eating it), but if it were sheep, I would suggest sourcing from someone that uses ebvs in selection and produces bulls reared on that forage system?

I did ask at an HCC meeting last week, as to why work wasn’t being done on imf levels in beef and lamb. The ability is there, as many overseas producers are paid on marbling in beef, and we are already recording the necessary data on lambs that are CT scanned. My point was immediately hijacked by someone promoting his Wagyu beef. Breed Society influence is likely the reason a lot of it doesn’t progress faster tbh.

 

[organicguy]

This should be applied to any civil service activity.

I thought this was going to be an ELMS thread

You do. It's just that you need to know why you are doing it and what the desired outcome is. Often these days it appears to be simply to keep staff employed!

As above!

 

[Ysgythan]

Why not? The results from RamCompare have (again) shown that it does work, down to primal cuts and lamb prices.

It won’t necessarily result in sheep with more of the cosmetic appeal that we, as breeders, like to admire, but it purely economic traits, it’s a tool that delivers if it’s used appropriately.

So we can expect a huge boost in trade for recorded stock?

 

[Al R]

That’s what we do on our fag packets, just not necessarily that regimented.

Now there is no white parts it’s far harder to see the ink on fag packets, I have a few hundred old “White” Embassy No1 empty packets if anyone wants any to do their maths on

 

[Woolless]

So we can expect a huge boost in trade for recorded stock?

Is your only measure of a sheep's worth the price it can command?

 

[Ysgythan]

Is your only measure of a sheep's worth the price it can command?

Err…mostly…yes…

I’m a farmer, not a Pastor

 

[unlacedgecko]

Excellent. Then you, at least, aren't part of the problem.

Where do I find a bull EBV scored for growth from forage and eating quality, the criteria that I value?

the US or Australia

 

[andybk]

so you tick the boxes as an individual breeder or even on individual breeding decisions, but the problem is it doesn’t multiply up to an industry scale.

biggest issue is 1/2-2/3 of those in the schemes are just using it for marketing purposes , some big names in our breed have awful ebvs even after many years , the stock look fantastic though (at point of sale ) ,
there is the rub , no concerted effort to actually push forward as a group , so a few good focused breeders swimming upstream in a big current of show stoppers