Help updating our cattle system please!

[bigw]

We have moved away from alot of similar traditional buildings over the last few years and the change in workload and animal health is massive and you will never regret spending money on buildings. Seriously consider a new build if you want to continue with cattle as you will spend good money after bad try to convert old buildings. Have them flexible enough so you can store machinery etc in the future if need be.

It looks to me that if you planned to try and combine both steadings into one you can keep your father and grandfather involved and have an enjoyable work load yourself. Also would it be possible to get someone into mill your grain for you?

 

[Chae1]

Don't put a centre pass up the middle. Waste of space and no use for alternative uses in future.

 

[Walterp]

Don't put a centre pass up the middle. Waste of space and no use for alternative uses in future.

Always try to incorporate a central feed passage: once you've had your hay blown away by a gale, your silage dampened by rain and your calves escape into the yards, you'll regret cutting corners by using a cantilever. Especially when it's raining...

But consider using sleeves for the supporting posts, to make the building more flexible. In truth, though, the worst that'll happen is you swop the cattle feed barriers for sheep ones, nothing much else is likely in practice.

And remembering that the next guy (including your successor) might be glad you put a central feed passage if he prefers sheep to cattle.

 

[Thick Farmer]

Can you out winter the younger cattle on stubble fields? That would require no investment at all!

 

[d williams]

Getting a bit muddy after the 2 inches of rain this weekend. Not long before they will be in for the winter.

Looking at those cattle I'd be converting those sheds to cutting room cold store and with that estate up the road asking the buyer to get those native breed heifers or continentals of grass with a bit of barley with a long term view to a farm shop perhaps f**k putting them in shed that ground has treated them well by the look of it

 

[-chris-]

Looking at those cattle I'd be converting those sheds to cutting room cold store and with that estate up the road asking the buyer to get those native breed heifers or continentals of grass with a bit of barley with a long term view to a farm shop perhaps fudge putting them in shed that ground has treated them well by the look of it

The last picture was of the 5 older cattle getting close to age that have been put on some better grass and fed a bit extra for the last few weeks. They have been here a year now.

 

[Chae1]

Always try to incorporate a central feed passage: once you've had your hay blown away by a gale, your silage dampened by rain and your calves escape into the yards, you'll regret cutting corners by using a cantilever. Especially when it's raining...

But consider using sleeves for the supporting posts, to make the building more flexible. In truth, though, the worst that'll happen is you swop the cattle feed barriers for sheep ones, nothing much else is likely in practice.

And remembering that the next guy (including your successor) might be glad you put a central feed passage if he prefers sheep to cattle.

How would sheep reach a centre pass for cattle? Think it would be more than changing feed barriers.

 

[-chris-]

If I had a shed like that chae1 I could do the cattle before going to work to a proper job!

 

[bobajob]

What is your hay and straw shed like and the one next to it? Would they not be ideal to convert to house some of the stock, feed them along the outside of the building at a trough barrier.
Store the hay and straw in some of the older sheds with a bobcat/ or store it at your grandads / outside.

I do agree it will be worth having the conversation with your dad and granddad about succession etc and eventually rationalise the business. Hope that's not too harsh.

 

[d williams]

The last picture was of the 5 older cattle getting close to age that have been put on some better grass and fed a bit extra for the last few weeks. They have been here a year now.

I would still look to convert to small scale butchers at the buildings with people on your doorstep you would get a faster return on your money than a purpose built cattle shed also if didn't work out planning would just be a change of use have your own cows giving you end value income on the beef those heifers don't look heavy enough to show much profit would think steers would be better graziers weight always pays into a slaughter house or market your buyer is buying on price rather than what is best for your system at the moment

 

[Chae1]

Its great. Would only really recommend centre pass though for ease of checking calving cows. Hoppers and outdoor passes work fine rest of time. Preferably hoppers as easy to remove and sell if circumstances change and can put some out on marsh to start them on hard feed before they come in.

 

[-chris-]

What is your hay and straw shed like and the one next to it? Would they not be ideal to convert to house some of the stock, feed them along the outside of the building at a trough barrier.
Store the hay and straw in some of the older sheds with a bobcat/ or store it at your grandads / outside.

I do agree it will be worth having the conversation with your dad and granddad about succession etc and eventually rationalise the business. Hope that's not too harsh.

I agree and have thought about this, the hay shed is a tin roofed open sided pole barn so not ideal but the straw shed is a nice size with the option to run along the front if we fitted feed barriers and concrete pannels at the back. The floor would need hardcore or ideally concrete and there are water courses on two sides to consider. Also no water there yet and would need to be piped from the header tank in the feed mill barn or even better a new bore hole. We would then have to store the straw and combine outside.

 

[DRC]

Why not buy stronger cattle in the spring and sell as stores straight off the marshes.
I know they would be dearer in the spring, but probably as much margin with no feeding and bedding to pay for!

 

[bobajob]

Sounds like its a no brainer to me, cattle eating along the outside of the shed will be fine in your drier part of the country. There wont be much effluent into the watercourse!

 

[-chris-]

I would still look to convert to small scale butchers at the buildings with people on your doorstep you would get a faster return on your money than a purpose built cattle shed also if didn't work out planning would just be a change of use have your own cows giving you end value income on the beef those heifers don't look heavy enough to show much profit would think steers would be better graziers weight always pays into a slaughter house or market your buyer is buying on price rather than what is best for your system at the moment

Yes you are right, weight is our biggest issue this year. Last week we easily fitted 5 cattle in the trailer for the 20 mile trip. My feeling is that we should buy/rear quality and feed with a measured ration.

 

[-chris-]

Sounds like its a no brainer to me, cattle eating along the outside of the shed will be fine in your drier part of the country. There wont be much effluent into the watercourse!

Ahh but senior management values his dry straw and combine more than our time.

 

[d williams]

Yes you are right, weight is our biggest issue this year. Last week we easily fitted 5 cattle in the trailer for the 20 mile trip. My feeling is that we should buy/rear quality and feed with a measured ration.

There not much wrong with those cattle I think that they may be the wrong age cattle and perhaps sex do you see older male cattle doing better than the younger heifers how do you run heifers with rigs and bulls ?

 

[-chris-]

There not much wrong with those cattle I think that they may be the wrong age cattle and perhaps sex do you see older male cattle doing better than the younger heifers how do you run heifers with rigs and bulls ?

To be fair we have a mixture, some of the cattle in the pictures are ok but it's the smaller screws that spoil the job. Sometimes we have fresian type bullocks that have plenty of frame but run out of time, smaller heifers finishing earlier but too small. All rigs and bulls are cut because we spend so much time in with them it's too dangerous to leave them. I would rather buy an even batch of more expensive cattle but you certainly have to pay for them compared to what we are used to.

 

[-chris-]

This is a spreadsheet I did last year -
fag packet maths


No of cattle finished


80
Bought in at £450.00
Sold at £900.00
Straw for muck
Silage £45.00
hay £20.00
grazing £40.00
fodder beet £30.00
barley £150.00
Time £70.00
Total costs per beast £355.00
Profit per beast £95.00
Total profit £7,600.00
Money tied up £55,600.00

 

[Thick Farmer]

This is a spreadsheet I did last year -
fag packet maths


No of cattle finished


80
Bought in at £450.00
Sold at £900.00
Straw for muck
Silage £45.00
hay £20.00
grazing £40.00
fodder beet £30.00
barley £150.00
Time £70.00
Total costs per beast £355.00
Profit per beast £95.00
Total profit £7,600.00
Money tied up £55,600.00

Hardly seems worth the hassle. Have you considered rearing dairy heifers? There are plenty of farms around here that would love to have their heifers reared in a TB free environment and will pay £1.30 per head per day.

1.30x365 = £474.50

Assume costs per animal is the same at £355 a head

474.50-355 = £119.50 a head

119.50 x 80 = £9560 total profit

Money tied up = £28400.

That would give a 33% profit margin compared to the 13% you have currently.