We have put a portion of grazing ground down for the herbal ley SFI option. We've now got enough grass to be able to reseed underperforming paddocks so it makes sense to put in some diverse mixtures whilst we're at it. What is the collective experience with these leys and is there anything you'd definitely avoid or include? I've seen a mixed set of reviews on Twitter and tbh I'm struggling to get excited about them but we need to give it a go.
Herbal leys for dairy grazing
- Thread starter Cookie
- Start date
- Location
- Northumberland
Got some to put in here so interested to hear comments .
Most concerned yesterday when I drove past the farm of a herbal ley enthusiast. The crop of Docks & Scotch thistles had to be seen to be believed
Most concerned yesterday when I drove past the farm of a herbal ley enthusiast. The crop of Docks & Scotch thistles had to be seen to be believed
- Location
- Essex
- Location
- Derbys/Bucks.
Grazing long grass for dairy cows really is the Holy Grail.
SFI payments will have tempted many people into sowing them without actually thinking about managing them. By default, they have become popular as a result of an arable 'subsidy' mindset, ie. a grass break crop that attracts a hefty sub. Sow it, Cut it, Bale it, job done.
To get the best out of grazing it is a counter-intuitive process.
Firstly let them grow tall and leafy, waaay longer than you would be normally comfortable with.
Then stock very tight for 24 hours.(12 hours is better) This is where you roll your eyes at the thought of trampling DM.
Don't let them back on the patch. Sub division of paddocks will be necessary, and the back fence is your friend.
Don't waste fertilizer on them, just let them do their stuff.
Rest untill they are grown tall again, and repeat the grazing.
Mowing them into the pit will only deplete the ley and satisfy the subsidy ticket.
Grazing them is by far the best option, but it is the long rest periods that you have to prepare for in a standard dairy rotation.
Don't be afraid of experimenting.
Young stock are often the best groups to experiment with regards to getting the best out of the ley, and much more fun than watching milking cows adjust to a whole new way of grazing.
SFI payments will have tempted many people into sowing them without actually thinking about managing them. By default, they have become popular as a result of an arable 'subsidy' mindset, ie. a grass break crop that attracts a hefty sub. Sow it, Cut it, Bale it, job done.
To get the best out of grazing it is a counter-intuitive process.
Firstly let them grow tall and leafy, waaay longer than you would be normally comfortable with.
Then stock very tight for 24 hours.(12 hours is better) This is where you roll your eyes at the thought of trampling DM.
Don't let them back on the patch. Sub division of paddocks will be necessary, and the back fence is your friend.
Don't waste fertilizer on them, just let them do their stuff.
Rest untill they are grown tall again, and repeat the grazing.
Mowing them into the pit will only deplete the ley and satisfy the subsidy ticket.
Grazing them is by far the best option, but it is the long rest periods that you have to prepare for in a standard dairy rotation.
Don't be afraid of experimenting.
Young stock are often the best groups to experiment with regards to getting the best out of the ley, and much more fun than watching milking cows adjust to a whole new way of grazing.
Jdunn55
Member
- Location
- Helston, cornwall
I grow them and graze them and really like them. Anything specific you would like to know?
- Location
- somerset
weeds are the problem, intakes are not. Our cows like them, you can watch them select the herb they want, this will be year 4.
we did cut some herbal ley for silage, one piece was a tremendous cut, biggest swathe l have seen, l think, only 2 into 1 for the forager.
but docks and thistles there. Docks not so bad, cows eat the leaf's and seeds.
doesn't compete with fertilised grass, leys coming into yr 4, herbs have either gone nuts, or are shrinking, depends on soil type
but, very different management, longer covers, and bigger residuals, on/off approach is best, back fencing is important.
chuck the plate meter away, and bite your tongue on the residuals.
for us, on a dry farm, they and different grasses, have been a godsend. The roots go down deeper, so keep growing longer in a dry spell. N only feeds the leaf, not the root, which is why they don't like fert.
yield wise, not a huge difference, cost wise, cheaper to grow.
we did cut some herbal ley for silage, one piece was a tremendous cut, biggest swathe l have seen, l think, only 2 into 1 for the forager.
but docks and thistles there. Docks not so bad, cows eat the leaf's and seeds.
doesn't compete with fertilised grass, leys coming into yr 4, herbs have either gone nuts, or are shrinking, depends on soil type
but, very different management, longer covers, and bigger residuals, on/off approach is best, back fencing is important.
chuck the plate meter away, and bite your tongue on the residuals.
for us, on a dry farm, they and different grasses, have been a godsend. The roots go down deeper, so keep growing longer in a dry spell. N only feeds the leaf, not the root, which is why they don't like fert.
yield wise, not a huge difference, cost wise, cheaper to grow.
That all sounds grand, and we do a lot of this already (12hr paddocks, sub-division, back-fencing etc.) The bit that I think we will struggle with is the long rest periods and high covers. We are stocked at 5 cows/ha on the grazing block. It works fine but there is no slack in the system to allow for trial and error finding out if this will work for us. The other problem is that a proportion of my grazing ground is rented and will be staying as PP so we could end up trying to run 2 very different systems, I'm trying to simplify things and this all sounds very complicated.
What do you grow and how do you manage it? Have you got them across the board?
- Location
- Derbys/Bucks.
All sounds good for you, but the bit that will take some balls is to not jump in to grazing too early. The longer rest period needed is the essential counter-intuitive bit.
like said above, plate meter will be a useless tool. You will grow the DM, but be prepared to see quite a bit of that DM get trampled back into the soils in the early learning stages. The DM won't be wasted as it will be feeding the soil and the re-growth, and it will mess with your head for a while.
look over on the dark side of TFF and pick your way through this thread!
Thread '"Improving Our Lot" - Planned Holistic Grazing, for starters..' https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index...planned-holistic-grazing-for-starters.224870/
More to life
Member
- Location
- Somerset
This all sounds great, i'll be collecting the sfi and managing them exactly as I manage my grass today.
- Location
- Derbys/Bucks.
in which case you will be disappointed with them because they won't persist and ultimately won't perform
I'm sure he will be in the majority
More to life
Member
- Location
- Somerset
Ryegrass and clover will be just fine.
A lot of herbal leys here, also 5 cows/ha.
The bit I find is that longer covers drop butter fats and yields.
Do you find the same?
Also on our dry, sandy soils, cocksfoot takes over which I think is lower ME and lower milk per tonne DM utilised. It does grow well in a drought, though.
More to life
Member
- Location
- Somerset
The key, imo is to not include all the difficult to manage plants. Don't accept the old stewardship mixes there not required now .
Mmmmm ryegrass is difficult to manage in a hot dry June!
But I know what you mean.
High stocking rate spring calver, rye grass, white clover and plantain work here and is fine for SFI too, plantain has a similar heading date as the rye grass, so fits with grazing fine , it can cope with 18 day rotation and can push it out to 45 days, still got stuff planted it 2017 growing well, but I'd rarely cut for silage which I think helps.
- Location
- Owaka, New Zealand
A really useful habit is "crystal balling" over morning milking - 'how many kgs/ha are we growing today, guys?' as you will already have a good handle on your intakes and how they affect pasture demand per hectare per day
By knowing how easily it is to sleepwalk into a pasture deficit we found that one daily discussion helped everyone on the team NOT get to that point as we would be slowing the round down with the pasture growth
.. leading/lagging indicator stuff, most pasture management is reliant on lagging indicators...
On species, we had great results with red clover / tonic plantain pastures to hold production over summer, and they didn't mind being silaged if unneeded
- Location
- Pembrokeshire
- Location
- Pembrokeshire
There’s two bits I don’t understand 1 why grow all that grass to then trample x amount of it into the bottom where it forms a mat of rotting crap in the bottom of your ley 2 the people utilising herbal leys the best are grazing them 4/5 days later than people with prg/wc leys not weeks later as suggested on herre
Need to have soil PH at 6.0 or above (ideally around 6.5)
It won't even start to grow at a PH level lower than 6
Get well rid of all the docks, thistles, nettles before you seed, if they start coming back into the new ley there's not a lot you can do but watch...
It won't even start to grow at a PH level lower than 6
Get well rid of all the docks, thistles, nettles before you seed, if they start coming back into the new ley there's not a lot you can do but watch...
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