Here we go again, more ethnic crime.

Discussion in 'Brexit & Politics' started by manhill, Aug 6, 2017.

  1. JP1

    JP1 Member

    Your's is certainly an enlightening post but maybe not for all the right reasons. When I lived close to Slough for a while, I was always struck by the number of Indian parents who took their children's education very very seriously. They wanted their children to be supported and to go far in future careers and business. Many parents themselves were economically not as wealthy as their "native" counterparts.

    I can say the same about Chinese Mauritian friends too.

    I wonder how a professional standards body would regard the views espoused? This is not a threat, merely an observation. When in practice and if you were called to represent (say) my Son In Law (or his Father who is not a "native" based on any of your likely narrow criteria), would he receive 100% optimal representation based solely on your views expressed here? Come to think of it, if he was in front of a jury would he receive a totally fair and objective jural decision?

    I think I will stick with my own moral compass as stated in my original post
    dstudent likes this.
  2. Danllan

    Danllan Member

    Oh dear, oh dear... @JP1 you're on to a loser if you try to pick up on the Welsh 'thing'... my mother's family are from Brecon, though she was brought up in Portsmouth because her father was an officer in the RN. My father's mother, my mamgu (grandma), was from Newcastle Emlyn but she moved to Portsmouth too after meeting my grandfather, also a naval officer - the RN obviously had an 'effect' on Welsh girls early in the last century...

    I was born in Herts, but was here in Carms when my parents were abroad. Admittedly my spoken Welsh is conversational at best, since my father didn't sue it much after mamgu died, however, I can go to three local graveyards - including the one three hundred yards from here - and find my forebears littered around. But... although mostly Welsh by descent, and very English by birth, I am even more British.

    In re' your comments on the Indians, can't disagree with that in my experience either - although their attitude might even be seen as oppressive by some liberals, if they were white... I have no experience of Chinese Mauritians, only Indian ones. But I note that you haven't mentioned Pakistanis or Bangladeshis or Blacks, why not, no convenient experiences? I also note that you have referred to Indians and Chinese Mauritians, not Britons...

    With regard to the non-threat, hmm... firstly, the representation of people by the Bar is without any bias, fear or favour. I have never come across any instance where Counsel ever gave anything other than their best effort in any given case, even one in which a very ardent Zionist friend of mine was representing an Islamic extremist. It would be very obvious both to opposing Counsel and the Judge were they not to do so and the matter result in an immediate upbraiding by the Judge and, probably, a referral to the Bar Council as well - but that would be at the Judge's and client's discretion. There is a thing called the 'Cab Rank' rule, it means that if you are able - i.e. capable - of taking on the next case in line, you must do so. There are various grounds upon which one may recuse oneself, this is frequently termed as declining due to professional embarrassment. I have done so, twice, the first instance was - by coincidence an African man - but my grounds for declining were not his colour, but the fact that he threatened to have me and my family killed if I did not successfully defend him. The second time was when the client turned out to be the father of a friend of mine who had told me a lot of unhelpful things about himself long before - I could have offered a technical defence in his case, but I preferred not to be involved at all.

    Despite having a large number of bleeding-heart liberals and PC types among its numbers, both to its and their credit, the Bar does not practice thought-policing.

    I have never been in a jury, when I was practising I was called for service a couple of times, but then Barristers were not allowed to serve, I have not been called since. Nonetheless, as with dodgy Counsel, a Judge and Counsel would probably pick up on any thing amiss in a jury, and Judges can reject verdicts that are 'perverse'. Could a white man or a policeman expect fair justice from a black jury? I would hope so in all cases.

    But you seem, by your general tone, to infer that I dislike people of foreign birth or descent, or those of a different colour to me. If that is your meaning, you are wrong, I have nothing against anyone for these reasons. But, just because I don't hate or look down upon people for such reasons, it doesn't mean that I want millions of them here in the UK nor that I am blind - or will pretend to be - to the realities of what happens in multiculti Britain.

    You stick with your 'moral compass' JP; in our currently free country you can and should. But it is an odd one, it doesn't seem to point to the North, or South, East or West, only in one direction, and it is something of an irony that this means you, as with other liberal apologists, are always right... ;).
  3. JP1

    JP1 Member

    I too was born in Hertfordshire, my Maternal Grandfather was a Welshman. Doesn't make me Welsh or a native if I moved to Pembrokeshire but I would resent it if someone came on a public forum and said I was more likely to commit a crime than someone born in Pembrokeshire.

    I have no need to defend or explain any frame of reference. I am on record for defending outrageous comments by some on here in the past and when you consider some TFFers are German or have Pakistani partners - as an example. Having travelled fairly widely and having a wide range if interests, I hardly think anyone need worry about my ability to have a wide range of friendships - that's not the point. The point was you stating that non-natives (whatever the heck that means) commit significantly higher amounts of crime.

    I thank you for your taxi rank explanation. It also helps to colour my view on all politicians and lawyers
  4. Pasty

    Pasty Member

    I often think there must be some African in my genes. All the men on my Father's side have had thick, black curly hair which is much more Samual L Jackson than Eric the Viking. Plus, I have an excellent sense of rythym and if you look a little lower......the soles of my feet are white.

    Either that or is a Celt thing. The locals have always referred to my family as 'that bunch of celts down there' or something like that.

    We are all mongrels on this island and I think that gives us a huge amount of strength. I suppose the problem comes when we try to integrate vastly different beliefs and cultures too quickly and without the support network.
    jendan and JP1 like this.
  5. Danllan

    Danllan Member

    JP, your habit of misconstruing must be deliberate, because I have it from reasonable authority - and brief personal experience - that you are an intelligent fellow. I could play the same game but I don't like to, so won't, but... if your blood and ancestry isn't key to your identity, what - in your opinion - is? And, if it isn't, why do your ethnic chums keep calling themselves 'Pakistani' British etc., rather than just British?

    Misconstrue, misrepresent, 'misunderstand' if you will, facts are facts and many - probably most - people have had enough of turning a blind eye to or being insulted if they mention the unpleasant side of mass immigration.

    @Pasty, rhythm? Perhaps you have Catholic antecedents...
  6. jendan

    jendan Member

    Are you sure it was "that bunch of celts",and not "that bunch of c**ts" (thats a joke by the way) My father in his youth had tight curly/frizzy dark hair,and always had thick lips.A classmate at his local grammar school always called him "you white faced darky",something that always made him laugh.Did you ever see Dara O Brian,s take on "mixed marriages".I found it very funny where he starts off talking about Protestants and Catholics as "mixed".
    Danllan likes this.
  7. JP1

    JP1 Member

    You wrote this:

    "the fact remains that immigrants do commit significantly more crime per head than the native population".

    If my friends and family are not "native", I may take umbrage to that assertion. It's you that wants to further extrapolate things.
  8. Ashtree

    Ashtree Member

    Immigrants have an abnormal propensity to get caught for even the most trivial of so called misdemeanours. Not just in Britain. Globally!!! :whistle:
    Danllan likes this.
  9. Danllan

    Danllan Member

    Feel free, umbrage away, :eek:, I'm not overly concerned about that, :cool:, and I note that your earlier stance regarding freedom of expression etc. is now looking somewhat disingenuous...

    And your position in this debate is utterly irrational since you are happy to make a 'positive' generalisation about an immigrant group - your point about Indians and education - but are not happy to have a negative one made by someone else, i.e. it would seem that from your perspective only positive generalisations may be made. That position is entirely daft and if you don't want or expect it to be rubbished you should order a giant snowflake costume here and now.


    My guess is that had I written that Indians have a greater likelihood to graduate from Medical School - which I don't know, but may well be the case - you would have smiled and nodded because I would have been following the required multiculti script about immigration being all wonder and light. But a simple assertion that a negative trait can, equally, be applied across a 'group' brings umbrage?

    Grow up, or wear the flake... :).
    lim x and alex04w like this.

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