Hill Cows

[Zero Homes]

Anyone know of anyone keeping welsh blacks on a hill all winter? I know some who graze them in summer but none who outwinter them there but i dont know why. Theyve gotten a bit too showy to be much use as a cow someone told me but there must be some good ones left somewere

We went out of welsh blacks around 15 yrs ago..quite a heavy cow for wet hill..also udder problems and feet isues was the main reasons.. they dont calve to a char that easy which is our system selling stores. Would have our saler x any day.

 

[hendrebc]

We went out of welsh blacks around 15 yrs ago..quite a heavy cow for wet hill..also udder problems and feet isues was the main reasons.. they dont calve to a char that easy which is our system selling stores. Would have our saler x any day.

I rememver some here and had some welsh black blooded cows (1/4 - 1/8th maybe) until recently and i didnt like them much. Some reared good calves but some didnt. All of them were 'lively' at calving and most of them had awful udders. Some barely had teats it was just like someone had taken a bag and split it in 4 parts the udder was just 4 massive teats every one had to be milked by hand first before a calf could suckle them and it was a 2 hand job to milk one teat to get it small enough for the calf to get is mouth around it the best uddered ones werent that bad but the teats were still massive. Like half a 2 litre coke bottle big and im not exaggerating either
I always thought it was bad luck with a line we had bought in but its funny youshould say you had udder problems as well. I havent had much to do with welsh blacks apart from those though.

 

[hendrebc]

I rememver some here and had some welsh black blooded cows (1/4 - 1/8th maybe) until recently and i didnt like them much. Some reared good calves but some didnt. All of them were 'lively' at calving and most of them had awful udders. Some barely had teats it was just like someone had taken a bag and split it in 4 parts the udder was just 4 massive teats every one had to be milked by hand first before a calf could suckle them and it was a 2 hand job to milk one teat to get it small enough for the calf to get is mouth around it the best uddered ones werent that bad but the teats were still massive. Like half a 2 litre coke bottle big and im not exaggerating either
I always thought it was bad luck with a line we had bought in but its funny youshould say you had udder problems as well. I havent had much to do with welsh blacks apart from those though.

Dad does say he had some exellent welsh black cows before he bought those crap ones though but that would have been in the mid 80s

 

[Sheepfog]

Sometimes it works out easier than silage as some hill guys can feed rolls to cows on areas where feeding silage would cause more problems.

5kg x £200/T = £1
£18/bale silage ÷ 18 cows = £1

And the silage can be more labour intensive than feeding with a snacker.

This.

Plus it's very hard to ration silage, without dominant cows hogging the feeders. So feeding a few Kg's of cake is actually cheaper. Plus inbye ground can be freed up from silage making for grazing stock.

Galloways are great hill cows, probably the hardiest of the true hill breeds. It's just difficult to sell their bullocks for a good price unless you fatten them. Luings, if you get the right type are good, but not as hardy as Galloways and there are a lot of great big cows that just can't cope on the hill. I've always thought Sussex cattle would make good hill cows, it's just a shame they're not more popular in other parts of the country.

 

[CharcoalWally]

This.

Plus it's very hard to ration silage, without dominant cows hogging the feeders. So feeding a few Kg's of cake is actually cheaper. Plus inbye ground can be freed up from silage making for grazing stock.

Galloways are great hill cows, probably the hardiest of the true hill breeds. It's just difficult to sell their bullocks for a good price unless you fatten them. Luings, if you get the right type are good, but not as hardy as Galloways and there are a lot of great big cows that just can't cope on the hill. I've always though Sussex cattle would make good hill cows, it's just a shame they're not more popular in other parts of the country.

Pardon my ignorance @Sheepfog , but I would have assumed that Sussex cattle would have been low ground cows? Are there such things as hill farmed stock in Sussex? Genuine question as it's one part of the country I've never been to.

 

[Sheepfog]

Pardon my ignorance @Sheepfog , but I would have assumed that Sussex cattle would have been low ground cows? Are there such things as hill farmed stock in Sussex? Genuine question as it's one part of the country I've never been to.

Some people out-winter them on the South Downs, which are exposed but not the same as a typical Scottish hill. But they are extremely hardy and put on weight on fresh air. Their calves always weigh like lead and fatten well without cake, not to the same weight as a continental cross, but they make a good butcher's beast. They cross well with the Simmental producing a cracking crossbred cow and a saleable bullock. A very underrated breed in my opinion.

Having worked with Galloways and Luings in the SW of Scotland, I would have thought the Sussex would fit somewhere in between in terms of hardiness.

 

[MJT]

We went out of welsh blacks around 15 yrs ago..quite a heavy cow for wet hill..also udder problems and feet isues was the main reasons.. they dont calve to a char that easy which is our system selling stores. Would have our saler x any day.

Tried a few WElsh black cows years ago and I’d agree they were just too big and not hardy, I’d suggest the best thing the current welsh black breeder could do was cross them with a Galloway bull and bring the size down and hardiness up.

 

[Zero Homes]

Tried a few WElsh black cows years ago and I’d agree they were just too big and not hardy, I’d suggest the best thing the current welsh black breeder could do was cross them with a Galloway bull and bring the size down and hardiness up.

They would have to add a extra barbed wire to there fences though.. I keep one very quite bottle fed Higland cow put to the saler bull with my batch of 15-20 helfrs every year..just keeps them quieter and more approachable.. this cow is probably 8 now and produces a good calf every year.. but her most important job is to keep the helfers quieter!..

 

[hendrebc]

Tried a few WElsh black cows years ago and I’d agree they were just too big and not hardy, I’d suggest the best thing the current welsh black breeder could do was cross them with a Galloway bull and bring the size down and hardiness up.

I just about remember the old type welsh black dad had. They were very small cows compared to the last lot he had but thats about all i remember about them. Small and hairy with big bellies now that you memtion them they werent too disimilar to a galloway. I wonder what happened to them in that time? Someone told me that the breed had become a bit too obsessed with size and showing instead of functionality and they were awful cows compared to what they once were. That farm keeps angus now because of that. Maybe what they said is true it wouldnt be the first time showing has ruined a breed
Cant believe there isnt anyone in herethat breeds them to ask

 

[B.Will]

Welsh Blacks do well here. Not the most flattering photos attached but shows a little of what they can do.
Cows are outdoor, 1000ft hill until December then down to 800ft with silage due to a glastir closed period on the hill for 90 days. Youngstock and autumn calving heifers are in through the winter.
Cows around 550 kg, don't want any bigger. Don't get many with bad feet or teets. Cull any that do

 

[hendrebc]

Welsh Blacks do well here. Not the most flattering photos attached but shows a little of what they can do.
Cows are outdoor, 1000ft hill until December then down to 800ft with silage due to a glastir closed period on the hill for 90 days. Youngstock and autumn calving heifers are in through the winter.
Cows around 550 kg, don't want any bigger. Don't get many with bad feet or teets. Cull any that doView attachment 696930 View attachment 696956

Now THAT is a herd of welsh blacks
They look like what dad had in the 80s and early 90s. Shame they arent all like that.

 

[TeleriEryri]

Welsh Blacks do well here. Not the most flattering photos attached but shows a little of what they can do.
Cows are outdoor, 1000ft hill until December then down to 800ft with silage due to a glastir closed period on the hill for 90 days. Youngstock and autumn calving heifers are in through the winter.
Cows around 550 kg, don't want any bigger. Don't get many with bad feet or teets. Cull any that doView attachment 696930 View attachment 696956

What month do you calve them @B.Will ? We're moving to autumn calving so that the calves are eating more in the summer on the mountain (conservation grazing aims), but I'm not sure when is the best month to be calving them. Thanks