Horse livery

[alan6430]

my girlfriend is a horsey girl and currently keeps her horse at the local livery yard. But she wants to move it and the obvious choice is of course bringing it to my place.

At our off farm we've a small shed we just use to keep off bits off machinery in which would possibly convert into stables. Would probably fit 4 stables in so might be able to house a few extra horses therefore making a livery yard. Not wanting to take on the world but why have 1 horse in a shed if you can fit 4 in.

Anyway, having no experience of this, presumably a lot of people have, what if any planning permission do we need and any insurances? And any other things I haven't thought of?

Thanks

 

[Hard Graft]

Keep it simple and just do one stable for her other wise she will fill them all up

 

[Loftyrules]

Livery can be hard work depending on who you let on.

 

[Grassman]

Just remember with liveries. For every pretty one there are ten mingers !

 

[Thick Farmer]

Just do the one. If you have more horses then the owners will end up bitching at each other or you will end up shagging one of them! (the owners that is!)

 

[wilber]

A nice bit of a extra pocket money that's for sure. We do it but the old chap is horse mad, were currently installing another 5 stables with individual lockable tack rooms.

Trouble is dad keeps buying horses to go in them!

We do livery on 3, getting the right sort of person in is key to an easier life, a worthwhile venture if you have the wasted space, we have no extra insurance, its up to the owner to insure their horse and a contract with some terms should be signed, more so for getting them out if they are pita.

 

[Chasingmytail]

NIghtmare, nightmare, nightmare - be aware diversification comes with warnings up the length of your arm. Firstly if you dont have a menage, or any facilities you are limited on the rent. We did £25pw. This attracts the lower end. They arrive all lovely full of enthusiasm, willing to help and totally approachable. then you realise they havent a pot to p%ss in - as the saying goes up to their thighs in leather up to their necks in debt and they are, no teeth, banger of car, lie endlessly and dont pay.

You must have insurance - your Indemnity must show DIY livery. You must have a full BHS contract, you must get references (absolutely worthless I'm afraid), Collecting money thats another laugh these women are rude and full of sh@t. You can get Direct Debit but that can be stopped.

You must have grassland management and many dont understand that either. OH banned them going on waterlogged fields and told them to either walk them or ride them, they moaned like mad because horse cant stand being trapped indoors day after day. Tough sh@t, leaving horses out in wet fields will ruin the fields, poach the f out of them.
There were some badly behaved horses and while being walked to fields broke off and the owners were happy to see them jumping all over my flower beds, totally bad mannered horses. To be quite frank I have never met should a horrible bunch of women in my life (being a woman I have met a lot) Bar the one or two that is,

Really for a few its not cost effective, there is no money in it. The time you spend keeping them happy, getting hay, bedding, electric fence, refencing barbed wire etc. The fields you need to do it properly, sheep tack is better. My husband talked me into it, I gave it a go and it was truely one of the worse ventures we have ever done and we've done loads.

 

[rob1]

Have 20 here and just completing another 6 which my DIL is going to do full livery in. You need "officially" change of use for the stables but not the grazing, if you are out of the way then just do it, it is an approved diversification so wont have problems if they do catch you, no rates are payable at the moment but be aware that it can be a added cost. You will need some extra third party insurance to be on the safe side. The horses arent generally the problem its the owners so be choosy and provide a all in package to include the hay and straw as this is what causes most arguments. Start small and build bit by bit.
The only downside is the fact your GF is horsey as its better to keep arms length from them, they can get cliquey with a horsey owner and that can cause big problems when they fall out, as they will, might be better for her to do full livery as she will have control then

 

[Chasingmytail]

[QUOTE="

We do livery on 3, getting the right sort of person in is key to an easier life, a worthwhile venture if you have the wasted space, we have no extra insurance, its up to the owner to insure their horse and a contract with some terms should be signed, more so for getting them out if they are pita.[/QUOTE]

You have no liability on DIY livery? I would seriously consider this as very bad practice. Insuring a horse is not the same.

 

[B R C]

Do it, what have you got to lose, you'll get you conversion costs back pretty quickly and if you decide it's not for you then you can stop doing it. With just 4 stables one of which is your GF then managing at most three others will be easy, just remember you are in charge, take rent by standing order only, and let them get on with it. If it is at an outlying farm even better! It might work out great and you decide to increase numbers. A friend has 100 liveries, as they say you can do the math! He is a pretty relaxed chap though!

 

[Chasingmytail]

a stable needs to be min 12ft x 12ft. with shelter over from the direct wind. You need to provide electric (outdoor covered) good lighting, external lighting PIRs, a raised area so a wheel barrow can be pushed up and a container or trailer to put the muck in. tap, allocated parking. The cost is not cheap, the wood to build the compartments, electric, lag all water pipes, areas to store tack and it must be lockable. Outside divide the ground into paddocks with moveable water system, good electric fence system, re-fence all poor barbed wire fences. The set up costs you wont get back, we are stuck with stone sheds with timber stables, electric, PIR lighting systems. Should it rain constantly (I think it did for 3 months here) somewhere they can exercise the horses. You are expected to supply quality hay (not dusty) and they will complain if one horse wont eat it, Somewhere to store sawdust (dont get involved in sourcing this). As for finding the right clientele thats pot luck - if you are providing DIY with grazing then you'll be aiming at the budget market and many turn up as they've done a bunk from the last one. If its 4 stables then you wont need change of use as this is acceptable.for the size of the dwelling and the number of occupants.

Dont forget you have to have the correct insurance to cover DIY livery and you have a duty of care to provide a safe place for the animals and the public. How some livery yards get away with it baffles me.

The days I wasted for people to turn up to see stables (didnt bother - watch with held numbers), People not turning up who said they wanted the stable (the excuses are numerous to mention) and the number of people I showed around who promised to get back to me who were just noising. The moment they say they want it you take the cash as deposit there and then.

 

[rob1]

Some people arent very good with other humans, if you run a livery you need to like people, even the odd ones, if you are odd then dont do livery, I go to lots of yards delivering hay etc and the ones who have the most trouble are the standard horsey ones IE nut cases, the normal ones dont seem to get the problem liveries, perhaps there is a connection

 

[Janovich]

Some nightmare stories above!,..especially from you @Chasingmytail .

If you do venture into the World of Livery, you need to be on the ball from the word GO. Don't take any c~~p from any of them. Lay the law down and stick to your guns. Keeping 3 may not be too bad, but I'd agree that if you can get Full Liveries to fill them it will be better run on your part. Perhaps go for 'retirement livery' if your GF is up for that.

Vet any prospective livery's to the hilt and do some homework on them before you take them in. There are 'serial livery yard hoppers' who move about from yard to yard on a regular basis, causing havoc amongst the other liveries and usually doing a moonlight flight when it's times for them to move on. They will be well known on the horsey circuit, so don't be afraid to ask fellow livery yard owners/fellow horsey folk if they know of 'Mr A N Other' blah blah...

If you can provide Hay/Haylage and the straw/bedding side of things and include it in the contract that's the best way to go, so you don't get umpteen delivery drivers turning up at all times of the day dropping off goods for the liveries (who are never there when the stuff is being delivered and you end up dealing with them!).

Take a deposit and a 'bond' as well (say 2 weeks livery for example which would be returnable on departure) and make sure you have a decent well worded contract in place beforehand, signed by both parties (but that suits you more!). Get your money by Standing Order too.

Good Luck,..

 

[Happy]

Some people arent very good with other humans, if you run a livery you need to like people, even the odd ones, if you are odd then dont do livery, I go to lots of yards delivering hay etc and the ones who have the most trouble are the standard horsey ones IE nut cases, the normal ones dont seem to get the problem liveries, perhaps there is a connection

That's because many people that aren't very good with other humans make up for it by investing their time with animals like horses instead.
Odd horsey people and odd livery yard owners will not be a good mix at all.
If just 3 or 4 liveries to those known by @alan6430's girlfriend then it should go just fine. Starting up from scratch in a bigger way usually ensures you get all the odd ball, non paying, trouble makers that everyone else has kicked out or won't touch.

 

[mikep]

Just do the one. If you have more horses then the owners will end up bitching at each other or you will end up shagging one of them! (the owners that is!)

Lots and lots of horse and riders round here but with a lot of them i would prefer the horse!

 

[alan6430]

Thanks for all your replies. A lot to think about

 

[IH 684]

Have a huge contract drawn up, include opening times, limit the number of people per horse or they will turn up mob handed especially school holiday time, state which buildings are out of bounds, where to park their car, routes to fields, if they want to park a trailer its £5 per week extra, they provide their own tools barrow etc, need proof of their own insurance or add them to yours at a chargable rate, to stop any stable gypsys charge the first 3 months rent up front, and after this state in the contract any rent that is two weeks over due the horse will be tied up at the farm entrance ready for collection,

 

[Glass half full]

i have 50 x DIY liveries and i take a different approach, contracts are worthless unless you back them up with court action so unless you go all the way don't bother. i have an easy in - easy out policy. known trouble makers i don't let in (and the liveries generally will know people with bad reps and warn you) apart from that i don't really care. don't expect anything from them and you wont be disappointed. they will only look out for number one, you scratch there backs and you will end up with an itchy back. it pays for the liveries to know that you don't care that way they don't nag too much because they know it gets them nowhere.

i have an interesting theory when it comes to liveries and hassle that i have developed over the last 13 years of building my yard. i call it 'the queen bitch theory'

it goes like this,

1-10 liveries, - you will have a alpha bitch who will rule the yard and bully the other liveries and nag you constantly, life will be hell for you until she moves on, then one of the beta females will move into her position and the process will repeat.

11-20 liveries - you will get two opposing factions on the yard both led by a dominant alpha who will vie for domination with each to establish ultimate power over the yard, there will be civil war and strife for all, this will eventually lead to a split and you will loose half your liveries at some point. life will be hell for you as both groups will come to you to act as the UN peacekeeper.

21-50 Liveries - Multiple power factions but no one alpha female can garner enough support to exercise domination over the other alphas liveries, any low power female who does not fit in her group can switch allegiance without suffering total social exclusion on the yard. this means less hassle to you and a much easier life in general.

 

[rob1]

i have 50 x DIY liveries and i take a different approach, contracts are worthless unless you back them up with court action so unless you go all the way don't bother. i have an easy in - easy out policy. known trouble makers i don't let in (and the liveries generally will know people with bad reps and warn you) apart from that i don't really care. don't expect anything from them and you wont be disappointed. they will only look out for number one, you scratch there backs and you will end up with an itchy back. it pays for the liveries to know that you don't care that way they don't nag too much because they know it gets them nowhere.

i have an interesting theory when it comes to liveries and hassle that i have developed over the last 13 years of building my yard. i call it 'the queen bitch theory'

it goes like this,

1-10 liveries, - you will have a alpha bitch who will rule the yard and bully the other liveries and nag you constantly, life will be hell for you until she moves on, then one of the beta females will move into her position and the process will repeat.

11-20 liveries - you will get two opposing factions on the yard both led by a dominant alpha who will vie for domination with each to establish ultimate power over the yard, there will be civil war and strife for all, this will eventually lead to a split and you will loose half your liveries at some point. life will be hell for you as both groups will come to you to act as the UN peacekeeper.

21-50 Liveries - Multiple power factions but no one alpha female can garner enough support to exercise domination over the other alphas liveries, any low power female who does not fit in her group can switch allegiance without suffering total social exclusion on the yard. this means less hassle to you and a much easier life in general.

Never had any contracts either, if you have lots of rules either you dont enforce them so they are a complete waste of time or you spend all your time nagging them to comply and give yourself an ulcer and make their hobby a misery so they leave and then you have to find new ones, just give them all a good bollocking when they step too far out of line, has worked for me for 20 yrs

 

[Happy]

i have 50 x DIY liveries and i take a different approach, contracts are worthless unless you back them up with court action so unless you go all the way don't bother. i have an easy in - easy out policy. known trouble makers i don't let in (and the liveries generally will know people with bad reps and warn you) apart from that i don't really care. don't expect anything from them and you wont be disappointed. they will only look out for number one, you scratch there backs and you will end up with an itchy back. it pays for the liveries to know that you don't care that way they don't nag too much because they know it gets them nowhere.

i have an interesting theory when it comes to liveries and hassle that i have developed over the last 13 years of building my yard. i call it 'the queen bitch theory'

it goes like this,

1-10 liveries, - you will have a alpha bitch who will rule the yard and bully the other liveries and nag you constantly, life will be hell for you until she moves on, then one of the beta females will move into her position and the process will repeat.

11-20 liveries - you will get two opposing factions on the yard both led by a dominant alpha who will vie for domination with each to establish ultimate power over the yard, there will be civil war and strife for all, this will eventually lead to a split and you will loose half your liveries at some point. life will be hell for you as both groups will come to you to act as the UN peacekeeper.

21-50 Liveries - Multiple power factions but no one alpha female can garner enough support to exercise domination over the other alphas liveries, any low power female who does not fit in her group can switch allegiance without suffering total social exclusion on the yard. this means less hassle to you and a much easier life in general.

Great advice.
Sounds just like School gate Mums.