How carbon negative/neutral/positive is a farm?

[egbert]

It's a complete farce. Look back on the 3 pages of this thread. How much time, effort and money is the industry wasting on this ? Imagine what could be achieved if we instead diverted all of that into PROMOTING OUR INDUSTRY.

I consider it's a useful forum to help us all see the picture for the industry as a whole - and therefore lobby where we can.

 

[delilah]

I consider it's a useful forum to help us all see the picture for the industry as a whole - and therefore lobby where we can.

For sure; I didn't mean the time spent making the posts, every day on here is a school day.
I mean the time, effort and money being expended by farmers on working out whether their patch of dirt is 'better for the environment' than their neighbours.

 

[Oldmacdonald]

But where is the science to support all these claims that cattle methane is not a problem?

 

[delilah]

But where is the science to support all these claims that cattle methane is not a problem?

Wrong question.
Where is the science to support all these claims that cattle methane is a problem ?

(But if you want answers to yours, it's all on here)

 

[hendrebc]

It's a shame @Agrispeed doesn't come on here much anymore
He was really clued up on this sort of thing and had regular carbon audits on his farm. He sequestered something like 2 kilos of carbon into his soils for every kilo of milk solids he produced.

 

[egbert]

But where is the science to support all these claims that cattle methane is not a problem?

Google will be your friend here, although you need to be careful you don't get dragged into the lobbying/conspiracy mis-information.
Just start reading up on the length of the methane cycle, and how cows produce methane.
You seem able to string a sentence together rationally, I'm sure you'll sift what you need.

Critically, something that struck me was that this methane is made of stuff which grew out of the ground, and fell out of the sky, just weeks/months before the cows guts got to work on it.
A lot of the carbon was extracted from the air just a moment before....
....balance that against burning natural gas, which is methane, and had laid underground for hundreds of millions of years. HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF FECKIN YEARS!!!!!!

Cow burps are so insignificant it's just a non story.

 

[betweenthelines]

I've seen that Coca Cola are going to continue to use plastic bottles saying it's what their customers want-light, easy to use, resealable etc.

Whilst I don't wholeheartedly agree with their decision, it is good to see someone in the food and drink sector refusing to bow down to internet generated hype and support their customers.

The UK food and drink industry should be doing the same sort of thing and shouting about all that is good about British food-top quality, best-in-World welfare standards, low food miles, low carbon emissions, protecting the countryside etc. etc.
We can be proud of what we do, not ashamed.

As for Landlords wanting more trees planted, just ask what they're having for dinner- a large helping of teak and (wood) chips?

 

[Hampton]

Inconvenient truth is for a arable farm nett zero today would mean no tillage, no synthetic fert or other input use or taking a big % of the farm out of production and planted with trees or perennials etc

not sure many are up for that ? I’ve mentioned this before, how many NFU members support the above ?

what we need is a big tech advance re N fertiliser if this is REALLY ever going to be possible

Livestock farms ironically getting all the bad press re GHG’s have a far better hope of achieving nett zero with perennials and low synthetic input use

And when you look at this post in the context of this article....

Britain now G7's biggest net importer of CO2 emissions per capita, says ONS

Fall in UK-produced emissions has been offset by those from increase in imported products

www.google.co.uk

 

[Steevo]

I’ve had a go with the farmcarbontoolkit, as I put in a previous thread. It’s reasonably straightforward to use, but a few questions I struggled with, such as it asks about implement widths without stipulating what implements.
It’s not too bad for calculating how much carbon we emit, but less so for what we sequester. I ended up putting in an estimated figure of 0.1% sequestration which resulted in us being carbon negative by 960 tonnes per year on an organic mostly pp farm.
Without annual soil testing across the range of soils we have, it’s not going to be easy, and this will be expensive.
Lots of questions need answering, such as can soils reach carbon saturation?

This is the issue. Many calculators are only being used to calculate how "bad" we are, without looking at how "good" we are too.

It starts with the default position that land, trees, hedges, plants etc are already there.....so any good done by them doesn't count. To me that's madness.

 

[Luke Cropwalker]

I was at a Neil Fuller presentation yesterday, apparently a new tree plantation has to get to year 10 before it is even carbon neutral. Cover cropping and regenerative ag can deliver much more, but will anyone listen?

 

[ajd132]

I was at a Neil Fuller presentation yesterday, apparently a new tree plantation has to get to year 10 before it is even carbon neutral. Cover cropping and regenerative ag can deliver much more, but will anyone listen?

I saw Neil last week. He talks so much sense. Lots of farmers could do with listening to him rather than being all sentimental about bloody ploughing and cans of chemical.
he is the only person pushing the regenerative ag thing who actually can put a metric on everything.
the meeting I was at last week where he spoke there was a lot of farmers in the room who simply couldn’t get their heads round the whole thing.

 

[Muddyroads]

As for Landlords wanting more trees planted, just ask what they're having for dinner- a large helping of teak and (wood) chips?

Sadly it’s not an individual landlord, but a group of people, several of whom have little idea about agriculture and are more concerned with retaining their 5 million fee paying members than the livelihoods of a comparatively small number of sometimes irritating farmers.

 

[Agrispeed]

It's a shame @Agrispeed doesn't come on here much anymore
He was really clued up on this sort of thing and had regular carbon audits on his farm. He sequestered something like 2 kilos of carbon into his soils for every kilo of milk solids he produced.

Still here, lurking. Because of current issues in the business I have been quieter of late.

Yes, we capture 2-3kg of carbon per L of milk produced.

Undoubtably the farm is a producer of greenhouse gasses, as is all agriculture, forestry and even rewilding. However the net production, both annually and over a lifetime. this is when perennial, and even careful annual cropping shows its benefits, even forestry, which can compare to perennial grassland in terms of carbon, has a relatively short lifespan and is at best only just over carbon neutral in total, whereas building soil OM and carbon creates soil, which captures more OM, so more carbon, so more soil, with potentially limitless results.

However, it all pales into insignificance when you compare it to the cost of modern lifestyles. My farm is 140ac or so and it captures over 300t of carbon annually. which is enough to for 10 people to fly to sydney in a year. There are 400+ seats in a modern airliner, and several flights to Australia per day alone. If you work out the requirement to offset this it becomes rather scary.

TL DR:

Farming produces greenhouse gasses. Some farming captures more than it produces.

If you want to save the planet eat what you want, don't expect to go where you want.

 

[hendrebc]

Still here, lurking. Because of current issues in the business I have been quieter of late.

Yes, we capture 2-3kg of carbon per L of milk produced.

Undoubtably the farm is a producer of greenhouse gasses, as is all agriculture, forestry and even rewilding. However the net production, both annually and over a lifetime. this is when perennial, and even careful annual cropping shows its benefits, even forestry, which can compare to perennial grassland in terms of carbon, has a relatively short lifespan and is at best only just over carbon neutral in total, whereas building soil OM and carbon creates soil, which captures more OM, so more carbon, so more soil, with potentially limitless results.

However, it all pales into insignificance when you compare it to the cost of modern lifestyles. My farm is 140ac or so and it captures over 300t of carbon annually. which is enough to for 10 people to fly to sydney in a year. There are 400+ seats in a modern airliner, and several flights to Australia per day alone. If you work out the requirement to offset this it becomes rather scary.

TL DR:

Farming produces greenhouse gasses. Some farming captures more than it produces.

If you want to save the planet eat what you want, don't expect to go where you want.

Glad you are still here
That is damned impressive and something that you should be very proud of. You should be on TV telling people that drink agrispeed cows milk and help save the planet
But yes that is damned scary when you put it like that. You would have to do it every year for 40+ years to offset one plane at that rate and you would be one of the best at it

 

[ollie989898]

Its not just carbon. Its green house gases full stop. Even water vapour acts as a greenhouse gas.

There is no real solution or eay forward yet. I have heard the same lines again and again since primary school.

 

[Lowland1]

So can I put our small farm in England down to trees to help balance the UKs carbon and continue shipping Beans by air from Kenya. If so......Result!

 

[egbert]

Sadly it’s not an individual landlord, but a group of people, several of whom have little idea about agriculture and are more concerned with retaining their 5 million fee paying members than the livelihoods of a comparatively small number of sometimes irritating farmers.

is there a faint suggestion there that you're one of the smaller demograph?

 

[Muddyroads]

Funnily enough, yes.

 

[egbert]

Funnily enough, yes.

mebbe not the place, but are the NT going to write in the trees as a tenants crop?
I DO have that arrangement with my own landlord, in an insertion into the AHA.
It was an inspired bit of thinking by the landagent 30 plus years ago, which enabled me to plant and grow trees as a tenant.

Otherwise, your tenanted farm is simply getting smaller....

 

[Sid]

Sadly it’s not an individual landlord, but a group of people, several of whom have little idea about agriculture and are more concerned with retaining their 5 million fee paying members than the livelihoods of a comparatively small number of sometimes irritating farmers.

But you don't bite the hand that feeds you?

Both in cash terms and assets!

I bet there are plenty that wish they had placed a covenant on the property they gifted !