How do I stop my new bull from hating me?

[Two Tone]

Farm animal nature can be the strangest thing. Never trust a Bull. But trust a breeding deer Stag even less, especially when it is full antler.

However, on many occasions when an animal is in trouble and needs your help, it is amazing how often they will trust you, because they realise you are helping them, even when it hurts. Cutting wire of Stag's Antlers with a pair of pliers, some of which will "twang" against it head and eyes is a case in point.

But as soon as it's over, watch out because normal service quickly resumes!

 

[Dry Rot]

Sometimes hanging an item that smells of a previous owner or herd member on a fence can help the transition. Done that with horses that suffer from separation anxiety and it definitely helped.

 

[shumungus]

A Bull should fear and respect you and you should fear and respect it. The idea of wanting it to 'like' you is ludicrous.

 

[som farmer]

A Bull should fear and respect you and you should fear and respect it. The idea of wanting it to 'like' you is ludicrous.

respect yes, fear no, no farm animal should be scared of it's owners.

 

[Bald n Grumpy]

Treat with respect but remember your the boss, the minute the role is reversed he's pies
Hereford we've got went vertical up walls for the first week we had him as a youngster. He's now over 7yo
Came from a place where it was very quiet and didn't see anybody except the old boy who we bought him of plus he'd been tested and had a nose ring in the same week.

 

[Treecreeper]

A Bull should fear and respect you and you should fear and respect it. The idea of wanting it to 'like' you is ludicrous.

On this basis I only ever use a stick on the bull when necessary, it will come as a bigger shock to have a slap on his nose when he needs it compared to animals that are routinely poked prodded and slapped on the behind. Reward for moving pen or loading, mine will follow out of the field for a bucket of corn.

 

[milkloss]

respect yes, fear no, no farm animal should be scared of it's owners.

fear might be the wrong word. You want it to rather be away from you instead of raiding your pockets for a treat.

I usually say a little bit of fear is a good thing but I agree ‘fear’ gives the wrong impression.

 

[som farmer]

hired a hereford bull few years ago, he got out and was in with someone else's cattle, anyway the owner came to collect him, as we went to get him out, parked the lorry at the bottom of a long green lane, bull easily picked out, ran by us, and was in the lorry looking out.

 

[shumungus]

No, don't think fear is too strong a word. As a child I loved both my parents and they me. I would have done anything for them and had an enjoyable childhood. I loved them, respected them and also feared them if I had done wrong. It is the fear of the repercussions if we do wrong keeps us on the straight and narrow from an early age because we do not understand complex emotional relationships when we are a small child.
People, we are talking about working with an Animal which is semi-domesticated, can easily weigh in excess of 1000kg, is essentially a dominant alpha male sniffing the air constantly for estrogen's, is involved in numerous fatal attacks every year and which from an early age we as humans are taught to fear. Even people brought up away from agriculture know to fear a bull that is why we give them respect and a wide berth. So the same simple logical rules work with a bull.
The minute you lose that relationship with a Bull and he has no fear of you he will turn and yes he may end up as pies but those might be the pies they serve at your funeral.

 

[primmiemoo]

No, don't think fear is to strong a word. As a child I loved both my parents and they me. I would have done anything for them and had an enjoyable childhood. I loved them, respected them and also feared them if I had done wrong. It is the fear of the repercussions if we do wrong keeps us on the straight and narrow from an early age because we do not understand complex emotional relationships when we are a small child.
People, we are talking about working with an Animal which is semi-domesticated, can easily weigh in excess of 1000kg, is essentially a dominant alpha male sniffing the air constantly for estrogen's, is involved in numerous fatal attacks every year and which from an early age we as humans are taught to fear. Even people brought up away from agriculture know to fear a bull that is why we give them respect and a wide berth. So the same simple logical rules work with a bull.
The minute you lose that relationship with a Bull and he has no fear of you he will turn and yes he may end up as pies but those might be the pies they serve at your funeral.

I agree. Too many people equate fear with terror these days. It is a far more nuanced concept than that.

 

[Dry Rot]

I suspect everyone has seen "The Old Man and the Bull", (if not, it's here:

).

So, anyone care to explain what's going on?

 

[abitdaft]

I suspect everyone has seen "The Old Man and the Bull", (if not, it's here:

).

So, anyone care to explain what's going on?

My daughter has a pet wedder ( don't ask ), he adores her and hates everyone else. Will go for anyone that goes near her. This looks similar.

 

[Andrew]

For every time through the crush that's a bad experience, make sure there's an equal number of neutral or good experiences.

Ideally run him in the crush every morning:
One day go straight through no stopping and back in his pen.
Next day stop him in the crush and give a few delicacies and scratch his ears.
Next day do what needs to be done.

It may sound like hassle but it's worth it.

 

[shumungus]

I suspect everyone has seen "The Old Man and the Bull", (if not, it's here:

).

So, anyone care to explain what's going on?

Bull sees man as no threat and superior to him, look at the way the bull was happy to follow the man. The key here is the man kept talking to the bull, kept calm, showed no hesitation and no fear. You as a dog trainer will know the last thing you should do is run from or turn your back on an advancing angry dog. If you have the balls to stand your ground firmly and be assertive it doesn't escalate the situation you can take control. Bull regarded the man at the least as an equal and no threat.
To put it simply 'Bullies' (I wonder where that term came from?) rely on fear and the other party backing down, if you calmly stand up to them they don't know how to cope.

 

[abitdaft]

Bull sees man as no threat and superior to him, look at the way the bull was happy to follow the man. The key here is the man kept talking to the bull, kept calm, showed no hesitation and no fear. You as a dog trainer will know the last thing you should do is run from or turn your back on an advancing angry dog. If you have the balls to stand your ground firmly and be assertive it doesn't escalate the situation you can take control. Bull regarded the man at the least as an equal and no threat.
To put it simply 'Bullies' (I wonder where that term came from?) rely on fear and the other party backing down, if you calmly stand up to them they don't know how to cope.

Or maybe he was the owner/ rearer of the bull? How many farmed or wild animals stand in the middle of a crowded street being agitated etc stand to get their erse scratched? If that bull and man were strangers then ..............WOW!!!!!

 

[Becs]

Thanks so much for all the replies - lots of food for thought and good to get a range of opinions. Just to clarify, I’m not looking for a ‘best mate’ in him, nor do I want him curled up on the sofa along side me, (!) I’m just sorry that the bull’s first week with us has been one of nearly daily bad experiences. l‘m very careful around any bull, probably more so than many farmers as I’m not from a farming background so I’m never cocky, and would never assume that they wouldn’t turn on me. On a positive note, he had his last antibiotic jab today and his vaccinations so we can let him settle down for a bit now. I’ll work on feeding him his grub separate from the cows that he’s with and gradually get him coming down the race for it. (And btw, I tried him with bananas today and he wasn’t impressed- maybe an acquired taste!) Many thanks again for all your advice.

 

[Headless chicken]

We’ve put back calving next year by a month to give him time to hopefully get fit and well. I hadn’t thought about him being homesick - it’s a shame his first week here hasn’t been nicer for him

If your intention is to use him in a months time id get a fetrtikity test done. I’m sure I was told a high temp on a bull which could easily be caused from a bad foot can kill the sperm for up to 4 weeks

 

[som farmer]

Bull sees man as no threat and superior to him, look at the way the bull was happy to follow the man. The key here is the man kept talking to the bull, kept calm, showed no hesitation and no fear. You as a dog trainer will know the last thing you should do is run from or turn your back on an advancing angry dog. If you have the balls to stand your ground firmly and be assertive it doesn't escalate the situation you can take control. Bull regarded the man at the least as an equal and no threat.
To put it simply 'Bullies' (I wonder where that term came from?) rely on fear and the other party backing down, if you calmly stand up to them they don't know how to cope.

when our young jersey bull turned, pretty well overnight, it was get out or get hurt, no warning, head down and charge. I have had many bulls, of varying breeds, some quiet, some 'stand offish' others watch you, and we never shout, hit, or take any chances, that young jersey is the only bull, in the 50 yrs i have had bulls, that went from quiet, to deadly in 48 hrs or so. We have had nasty bulls, those have been kept in proper pens, but usually gone quickly, it is simply not worth any risk at all.

 

[som farmer]

If your intention is to use him in a months time id get a fetrtikity test done. I’m sure I was told a high temp on a bull which could easily be caused from a bad foot can kill the sperm for up to 4 weeks

and check them for fertility, just been on farm looking at a large bunch of cows, most meant to be i/c, only 30% were, even though a bull was running with them, all +ve bar 2, were 5 months +. We had a bull last year, working well, but 7 months after fert test, he was firing blanks. Compared to the economic loss, an 'off' bull causes, that test represents very good value.
We ran into trouble running a mature bull, with 35 xbred dairy hfrs, loads caught in the first 2 weeks, then nothing, as xbreds tend to be bulling for 1 or 2 days, and tend to sync themselves, we literally wore him out, lesson learnt.

 

[abitdaft]

I have been thinking a lot about this thread since last night and it seems to me that we almost demonize bulls straight away. Any animal can turn nasty or even be born nasty. I have had more scary moments with heifers that are full of themselves than bulls, in fact some of the feral cats are a bigger worry! I once had a bull "run" at me ( or so I thought at the time ) in a feed passage because as it turned out he was scared of a puddle, I jumped the barrier and he came to a stop beside. put his head down and was obviously stressed and scared ( 22 months old ). That same bull became a bit of a mummies boy ( yes, I know, we cant have that) and that same boy was like "Ferdinand The Bull", the day he went I broke my heart. His last weigh in was 1400k and the biggest darling I have ever come across. All he ever wanted was a decent meal and a lot of love and if that makes me a crap farmer....................I'll take my Ferdinand every time. He was a great bull, he threw easy and well growing calves and was a pleasure to be around. There will be a multitude of folks on here............never trust a bull and I absolutely agree, however I would have trusted THAT bull with MY life and I know I will be slated for it but hey ho, you guys didnt know him.