How does feed for livestock affect those commodity prices?

[Jackov Altraids]

this needs discussing on a vegan site...

Well I know vegans have no comprehension of the true impacts of widespread adoption of their ideology and I would like to formulate an accurate idea so that I might enlighten them!

 

[Raider112]

this needs discussing on a vegan site...

I've spent a lot of time explaining this to vegans but on farming pages not vegan ones.
Can't be done with looking for them to argue with, just wait for them and they turn up.

 

[Werzle]

I would say I probably use my BPS to buy feed and fertiliser so that I can keep enough stock to stay in business.
I will be reducing both by at least 80% this year by halving stocking rates.
I should be able to at least double my margins so should be better off.
If all livestock farmers did this, I wonder what would happen?

Meat and dairy would get more expensive.

If all the food processing waste went to AD plants for free rather than sold for feed, the price of food would go up even if grains didn't.

According to @Sid ;

"But the cost only the wheat in a loaf of bread is marginal.
£200/t a 500g loaf has 10p of wheat
£400/t a 500g loaf has 20p of wheat"

The effective cost of that wheat would double.

Slippery slope, next year you will half as much stock to sell and less sub. At what point do you suddenly realise you arent turning over enough money to be viable

 

[Henarar]

Slippery slope, next year you will half as much stock to sell and less sub. At what point do you suddenly realise you arent turning over enough money to be viable

Better than turning over lots and making nothing

 

[Farmer Roy]

The digester subsidy will put a bottom in the market these days

As above, an argument could be made these days, that many of those products could go in a bio digester to produce energy.

The digester demand is surely a drop compared to animal consumption?

...but does a digester stack up financially if no government subsidy? Take away the government sub, then calculate what the digesters can afford to pay.

Presumably biscuit meal type products will be of use to digesters, whereas I'd guess the higher protein feeds such as distiller's grains won't be of much value to a digester. That said, don't the distilleries now have digesters at their sites??

Interesting debate, all driven by supply and demand at the moment.

AD likes dry matter, and some products, be it crop or waste produce more methane per m3/ton.

The competition is two fold, one is for the raw material (input) one is for the product (output) and which gives the best return.

At the moment, AD has several advantages, however we can't eat energy.

The ideal solution is for the feed supplier to use their own waste to produce energy for the mill.

A detailed life cycle analysis needs to carried on both, and a fair comparison made, as the argument is not as simple a food v fuel, which you have highlighted.

At the moment, the highest bidder wins.

pardon my ignorance, but is AD / bio digester just a UK thing or is it Euro wide as well ?

just asking, as I’ve never heard of them here.
We have plenty of other options for “green” or renewable energy

 

[Farmer Roy]

Does livestock farming stack up financially if no government subsidy...?

well, that all depends on your system of production I’d say . . .

Livestock farming in an extensive low input system can be EXTREMELY profitable. Not only successful family operations, but a LOT of corporate investors in this segment as well

Then again, high input intensive poultry or feedlot cattle can also be very profitable, judging by the amount of corporate money invested in it.


with no subsidies. . .

 

[Werzle]

Better than turning over lots and making nothing

When the job comes right you have missed the boat and are playing catch up.

 

[Sid]

this needs discussing on a vegan site...

TikTok - Make Your Day

 

[Grass And Grain]

pardon my ignorance, but is AD / bio digester just a UK thing or is it Euro wide as well ?

just asking, as I’ve never heard of them here.
We have plenty of other options for “green” or renewable energy

Big in Germany. Several years ahead of the UK, but I believe subsidised. My brother visited one there, they were ticking along producing electric, then shifted to direct gas injection to the grid. That transformed profitability, as they were getting paid for every bit of energy (no waste heat from the engine/generator).

The next thing seems to be building vertical farms next to the AD plant to use the heat and electricity.

 

[egbert]

Big in Germany. Several years ahead of the UK, but I believe subsidised. My brother visited one there, they were ticking along producing electric, then shifted to direct gas injection to the grid. That transformed profitability, as they were getting paid for every bit of energy (no waste heat from the engine/generator).

The next thing seems to be building vertical farms next to the AD plant to use the heat and electricity.

An area I know was wall to wall small dairy farms. apparently they're almost all gone, and the grass goes to Ad plants.

and with the price and politics of gas....that's hardly going to change back to stock now

 

[Werzle]

pardon my ignorance, but is AD / bio digester just a UK thing or is it Euro wide as well ?

just asking, as I’ve never heard of them here.
We have plenty of other options for “green” or renewable energy

Led to believe they had peaked in germany and alot had ceased being used

 

[Humble Village Farmer]

It's always been the easy option to reach for the cake scoop. It sucks money out of the industry and reduces our self reliance in home grown feed. At the same time it enriches those that buy in imports to keep domestic prices down by creating a market for their biproducts.

It's the subsidies that have allowed us to think we can afford to do it.

 

[Henarar]

Led to believe they had peaked in germany and alot had ceased being used

sub ran out

 

[DrDunc]

sub ran out

Will Germany find more cash for digesters now that there's a funny taste to sucking Putin's pipeline?

 

[Henarar]

Will Germany find more cash for digesters now that there's a funny taste to sucking Putin's pipeline?

don't he wash often ?

 

[ollie989898]

pardon my ignorance, but is AD / bio digester just a UK thing or is it Euro wide as well ?

just asking, as I’ve never heard of them here.
We have plenty of other options for “green” or renewable energy

AD is big all over Europe. Particularly in Eastern Europe. Big areas of land and membership of the EU was agreed provided they would shut down or radically improve their Russian designed nuclear reactors.

A LOT of big farms were given EU cash to build AD plant and associated infrastructure in Eastern Europe. I've seen them with my own eyes. There is a lot of AD in Germany, less so in France and Spain.

Of course, with the price of electricity now, the AD operators must be loving life.

 

[nick...]

I’m sure to be legal anyone running digesters should be on white diesel and that will take the shine of the job
Nick...

 

[ollie989898]

A lot of livestock feeds are in fact by-products of other processes. Distillers grains, sugarbeet pulp, citrus pulp, even soya meal is a by-product of the oil being produced. So these 'wastes' would be produced no matter what, and would likely end up in AD plants or being burnt in power stations if livestock did not exist.

 

[bigw]

I have watched several videos on youtube lately of large dairies in the US. Their use of waste products, AD and crop irrigation is quite fascinating.

 

[egbert]

A lot of livestock feeds are in fact by-products of other processes. Distillers grains, sugarbeet pulp, citrus pulp, even soya meal is a by-product of the oil being produced. So these 'wastes' would be produced no matter what, and would likely end up in AD plants or being burnt in power stations if livestock did not exist.

already happening....hasn't there been a lot of sugar beet waste going into ad plants...instead of my ewes?