How does feed for livestock affect those commodity prices?

[DrDunc]

already happening....hasn't there been a lot of sugar beet waste going into ad plants...instead of my ewes?

Beet pulp and brewers grains, once the cheap staple of hill livestock, now goes near exclusively to a "digester".

Distilleries have built their own plants to consume the by-products that are so heavy subsidised, then charge the hapless farmer for the meagre nutrients left within the "digestate" by-product of the digestion.

Livestock farming can only survive by becoming self reliant, using cattle to produce dung to fertilise crops to finish progeny. Dog and stick land raping will work for a few years and profit some, but without replacing the nutrients needed to grow food, it is not sustainable.

Meat is the only food that can be produced from vast areas of upland and hill ground. Whether governments are willing to let people starve rather than support "extensive" livestock farming, time will tell......

 

[ollie989898]

already happening....hasn't there been a lot of sugar beet waste going into ad plants...instead of my ewes?

The haulage of pulp and the drying of it (using gas) to make pellets is probably killing that process and stopping it ending up as livestock feed.

 

[ollie989898]

Beet pulp and brewers grains, once the cheap staple of hill livestock, now goes near exclusively to a "digester".

Distilleries have built their own plants to consume the by-products that are so heavy subsidised, then charge the hapless farmer for the meagre nutrients left within the "digestate" by-product of the digestion.

Livestock farming can only survive by becoming self reliant, using cattle to produce dung to fertilise crops to finish progeny. Dog and stick land raping will work for a few years and profit some, but without replacing the nutrients needed to grow food, it is not sustainable.

Meat is the only food that can be produced from vast areas of upland and hill ground. Whether governments are willing to let people starve rather than support "extensive" livestock farming, time will tell......

If distilleries are using electricity and need the heat then it makes sense to consume their own waste products to obtain it using AD processes. Of course the digestate will need to be send to the land at some stage though.

 

[Sid]

I have watched several videos on youtube lately of large dairies in the US. Their use of waste products, AD and crop irrigation is quite fascinating.

Was watching the Millennial farmer on a trip out west.
7600 cows with own AD plant in Arizona.
Not sure on grants in the US.

 

[Humble Village Farmer]

A lot of livestock feeds are in fact by-products of other processes. Distillers grains, sugarbeet pulp, citrus pulp, even soya meal is a by-product of the oil being produced. So these 'wastes' would be produced no matter what, and would likely end up in AD plants or being burnt in power stations if livestock did not exist.

I think the question here is: are livestock farmers paying over the true value of these waste products and are other buyers getting the same feedstock at better prices?

 

[ollie989898]

I think the question here is: are livestock farmers paying over the true value of these waste products and are other buyers getting the same feedstock at better prices?

The marketplace decides the value of these things. Some of the other end users of these materials will be buying in much larger quantities than yourselves, and using the supply all-year around, too. They may also have a decided advantage in haulage/distances etc. Ultimately livestock users will be competing with AD, power stations and the like which to be fair has been the case since year dot anyway- PK has been burnt in power stations before as has wheatfeed.

 

[thesilentone]

pardon my ignorance, but is AD / bio digester just a UK thing or is it Euro wide as well ?

just asking, as I’ve never heard of them here.
We have plenty of other options for “green” or renewable energy

It is Worldwide, however the UK is fairly slow at growing the most reliable source of green energy that provides base-load.

Germany now has around 10,000 AD plants.

The market dictates at the end of the day, and if it's more profitable to sell produce and by-product as opposed to go to AD, then that is what will happen, and has happened before in other Countries.

 

[Jackov Altraids]

When the job comes right you have missed the boat and are playing catch up.

The potential of 'jam tomorrow' is what has kept far too many crawling along accepting low/ no margins.
As I have a breeding flock/ herd, I'm not going to worry about it.

Slippery slope, next year you will half as much stock to sell and less sub. At what point do you suddenly realise you arent turning over enough money to be viable

My assessment of circumstances and forecast for the next few years is that the slippery slope of continually expanding to maintain a margin will not be sustainable. Most dairy farmers I know have had to make a decision to stop or commit to many years to borrow the £millions it takes to keep going.
If I'm not making enough money to be viable with half the stock, the sums and decisions are much simpler.

I do monitor COP and benchmark. I have been relatively profitable but my model has been using about double the average amount of feeds. That is not going to work at £300+.

Thanks to this thread, I think I'll wait to hear when the subs for AD are finishing before relying on lots of feed again.

 

[thesilentone]

The politics surrounding AD, Wind, Solar etc can muddy the waters if we are not carefull. AD WAS a very good investment (as was solar, wind etc) when we were playing catch up, and technology was expensive. However digression (reduction in tariffs) means it is no longer the golden goose. The sustainability criteria has all but killed off crop only plants, unless they are very big, and are injecting gas to grid.

So, AD has become more finite, and needs a very detailed business plan and feasibility exercise long before you visit the lenders.

However, as a means of waste management, there is nothing that comes close as a way of producing energy. So, the future must be for large plants processing waste, producing electricity or gas to grid, with a means of using the surplus heat. Waste should also include AG waste such as slurry, manure, slaughter house waste, etc.

All the nutrient in the digestate should be returned to where it came from, the land. Where carbon credits should be claimed for not using chemical fert.

The complexity of the competition for food manufacturing by-product, that some class as waste, whether it be for cattle feed or energy is open to market forces, however it is loaded in favour of AD, as the supplier of the by-product will be able to claim CO2 credits.

But, this debate has to include the use of grain as cattle feed, which is not a very efficient way of using it (unless you are feeding poultry). This system has acted as a relief valve for grain surplus globally, and should change in future. That change should include the use of food manufacturing by-product as cattle feed, and their we have a conundrum.

 

[DaveGrohl]

The potential of 'jam tomorrow' is what has kept far too many crawling along accepting low/ no margins.
As I have a breeding flock/ herd, I'm not going to worry about it.



My assessment of circumstances and forecast for the next few years is that the slippery slope of continually expanding to maintain a margin will not be sustainable. Most dairy farmers I know have had to make a decision to stop or commit to many years to borrow the £millions it takes to keep going.
If I'm not making enough money to be viable with half the stock, the sums and decisions are much simpler.

I do monitor COP and benchmark. I have been relatively profitable but my model has been using about double the average amount of feeds. That is not going to work at £300+.

Thanks to this thread, I think I'll wait to hear when the subs for AD are finishing before relying on lots of feed again.

Given PPA prices at the moment you may have quite a wait.

 

[Norfolk Hill Farmer]

We are going to find out in the next few years.
That is what led me to ask the question. A considerable reduction in livestock numbers could result in a load of unintended consequences.
Would the AD plants deal with 50% of the feeds and straw currently used by livestock?

What would be the environmental affect of this?

How would this change the decision making of arable farmers?

Was offered the waste from a veggie burger factory once, now there’s an irony.

 

[Ffermer Bach]

We are going to find out in the next few years.
That is what led me to ask the question. A considerable reduction in livestock numbers could result in a load of unintended consequences.
Would the AD plants deal with 50% of the feeds and straw currently used by livestock?

What would be the environmental affect of this?

How would this change the decision making of arable farmers?

at a time, when advances in regenerative agricultural understanding are showing how important integrating ruminants into all types of farming are for soil health, it beggars belief that our politicians and media are demonising animal agriculture.

 

[Jackov Altraids]

at a time, when advances in regenerative agricultural understanding are showing how important integrating ruminants into all types of farming are for soil health, it beggars belief that our politicians and media are demonising animal agriculture.

Modern agriculture has largely segregated all the different sectors in the name of specialisation and efficiency.
This hasn't been brilliant for the environment but it still broadly uses the cycles of nature.
Removing livestock from the cycle will have considerable consequences.
It would seem that AD plants might replace them in part. It would be good to have a proper assessment of the net affect of it.
.

 

[DaveGrohl]

Modern agriculture has largely segregated all the different sectors in the name of specialisation and efficiency.
This hasn't been brilliant for the environment but it still broadly uses the cycles of nature.
Removing livestock from the cycle will have considerable consequences.
It would seem that AD plants might replace them in part. It would be good to have a proper assessment of the net affect of it.
.

AD plants can’t replicate the effect of the animals on the ground and all that they bring. Applying digestate is NOT the same. Nor can AD plants convert waste into top quality food. They’re great if the aim is to produce energy though, with fewer fossil fuels, which we do seem to think we need. But we need food first. But I suspect you know that, so as you were.

 

[Jackov Altraids]

AD plants can’t replicate the effect of the animals on the ground and all that they bring. Applying digestate is NOT the same. Nor can AD plants convert waste into top quality food. They’re great if the aim is to produce energy though, with fewer fossil fuels, which we do seem to think we need. But we need food first. But I suspect you know that, so as you were.

I have this image in my head of an industrial wasteland, sometime in the middle future. Forlorn people desperately searching for a source of food and warmth that requires no energy source as there is none.
They all stand still with joy and amazement at a small flock of sheep ambling by nibbling on the patches of weeds and they suddenly see the perfect solution to all their problems.......

 

[tepapa]

I have this image in my head of an industrial wasteland, sometime in the middle future. Forlorn people desperately searching for a source of food and warmth that requires no energy source as there is none.
They all stand still with joy and amazement at a small flock of sheep ambling by nibbling on the patches of weeds and they suddenly see a the prefect solution to all their problems.......

They can eat and burn the sheep sh!t I like your thinking.

Edit: but how do vegans light a fire? I haven't thought this through properly.

 

[Steevo]

They can eat and burn the sheep sh!t I like your thinking.

Edit: but how do vegans light a fire? I haven't thought this through properly.

Copious amounts of hot air…!

 

[roscoe erf]

I’ve always found food waste is in the wrong place for animals that need the feed

 

[Courier]

Does livestock farming stack up financially if no government subsidy...?

It can do for those who don’t need to factor in rent, mortgage or finance costs and paid labour…..

 

[egbert]

It can do for those who don’t need to factor in rent, mortgage or finance costs and paid labour…..

all those little things eh?