how long before we're all organic?

[graham99]

Dose it not cost more to produce organic food along with the reduced yields this would lead to a price rise due to supply and demand .

organic will be cheaper unless you have paid too much for the land.
the whole point of organic is to cut out the middle man.

 

[oldoaktree]

Organic food can be cheaper to grow per Ha but more expensive per tonne because of the lower yields.
In global terms the UK is tiny in both population and food production terms. If the UK unilaterally ceased to produce any food whatsoever the impact on global food prices would be diddly squat.

Domestic prices would rise . If we produced no food we then would be at the mercy of other countries to exploit us

 

[farmerm]

well you are not organic then. the whole point of organic is to produce what the land can sustain.
with out having to truck in crap to keep the bank manager happy.

Subsistence farmers crap back on their own land... We have to feed the urban masses who crap in the toilet and flush all our harvested nutrients out to sea....

 

[manhill]

Can I counter the counter-arguement by the fact that when to first meat exported to the UK was by sail and not by powered ship requiring fossil fuels for transportation? Has been done in the past ,so no reason why it could not be applicable in the future???

Bulk carriers for non-perishables like wood for burning and powered by sail sounds good so why can't they compete with oil powered vessels?

 

[farmerm]

Domestic prices would rise . If we produced no food we then would be at the mercy of other countries to exploit us

195 other countries would join together form a cartel to exploit us, really You know we already import half of our food... Yes domestic prices may rise but more due to the extra transport and trade costs, not because of a rise in commodity prices. However much of the potential increase could be offset if we have left the EU customs union, our gov could just slash import tariff and quotas to maintain low food prices, food prices are a big vote driver.

 

[farmerm]

Bulk carriers for non-perishables like wood for burning and powered by sail sounds good so why can't they compete with oil powered vessels?

There are some hybrids on the drawing board....

https://www.nyk.com/english/csr/envi/ecoship/ecoship_high.html

 

[Courier]

Has anyone set up an "Organic" foodbank yet, If not, Why not ?

 

[delilah]

Can I counter the counter-arguement by the fact that when to first meat exported to the UK was by sail and not by powered ship requiring fossil fuels for transportation? Has been done in the past ,so no reason why it could not be applicable in the future???

couldn't agree more (though that doesn't really counter the counter argument, it supports it, as we wouldn't be eating oil, but utilizing trade winds).

 

[delilah]

Has anyone set up an "Organic" foodbank yet, If not, Why not ?

they have, of a fashion, there is a gleaning network whereby volunteers harvest surplus veg from box scheme farms and distrbute to soup kitchens etc.

 

[glasshouse]

I don't grow rape, probably goes to explain why I haven't used more than a bag of slug pellets in the past decade... Is there not a higher level of N in the soil after ripping up an organic clover ley than after a crop of rape that had its last bagged N 4 months earlier?

I can only speak from experience, but after i stopped using bag N, the slugs departed never to return .

 

[glasshouse]

Organic food can be cheaper to grow per Ha but more expensive per tonne because of the lower yields.
In global terms the UK is tiny in both population and food production terms. If the UK unilaterally ceased to produce any food whatsoever the impact on global food prices would be diddly squat.

It would affect our local market, ie wheat eould rise by £40 or import parity to use the technical term

 

[glasshouse]

Can I counter the counter-arguement by the fact that when to first meat exported to the UK was by sail and not by powered ship requiring fossil fuels for transportation? Has been done in the past ,so no reason why it could not be applicable in the future???

Not frozen meat.
Salted maybe

 

[Courier]

organic will be cheaper unless you have paid too much for the land.
the whole point of organic is to cut out the middle man.

Unfortunately for the 83% of folk in the UK who live in 6% of the area of the UK (urban as at 2014) there is little option but to buy from a "middleman".

 

[farmerm]

I can only speak from experience, but after i stopped using bag N, the slugs departed never to return .

I think there may be a bit of recreational slug pelleting used as an insurance policy to protect low seed rates.. How late and how much N where you applying? I doubt much of my Spring applied N is still readily available in the soil for my autumn sown crops.

 

[farmerm]

It would affect our local market, ie wheat eould rise by £40 or import parity to use the technical term

whats £40 a tonne on the price of a loaf of bread? 1T of flour produces 2T of bread or 2500 * 800g loaves lets be generous and say its 2000 loves to a tonne of wheat £40/2000 = 2p per loaf...

 

[manhill]

whats £40 a tonne on the price of a loaf of bread? 1T of flour produces 2T of bread or 2500 * 800g loaves lets be generous and say its 2000 loves to a tonne of wheat £40/2000 = 2p per loaf...

And if you bake bread with the consistency of a sponge cake you can make even more loaves (as some 'bakeries' do).

 

[farmerm]

And if you bake bread with the consistency of a sponge cake you can make even more loaves (as some 'bakeries' do).

You simply can not beat the profit margin from baked water.

 

[PSQ]

its the bankers throwing you under the bus.

Nope, no loans involved in the Ag business here.

It will be politicians who throw us "under the bus" by holding us to higher standards and costs, all the while encouraging the cheapest sh!t 'mystery meat' and crops sprayed with residues of every banned agchem from the rest of the world, to undercut UK producers at every opportunity.
As per the 'horse meat' scandal, when it comes to welfare standards and quality 99% of the population will turn a blind eye, and few will care about feeding school kids 3 month old chlorinated chicken and meat with residues of 'angel dust', as long as it's cheap, as long as "the shareholders approve", and the education departments save enough to pay for the councillors pay rise.

And don't try and pull the 'organic' BS Graham. Of all the organic farmers I know, the ones actually making a go of it are the ones who are 'sub hunting' for the conversion grants before getting out, or staying in and fiddling the fertiliser balance sheet to hide the extra loads of bought in hen pen.
The rest of them with the Soil Associations wool pulled over their eyes, frankly, lets not go there.

 

[multi power]

I'm amazed at the negetive views on this thread FFS there is far too much food around, and it's bloody cheap too, the UK agriculture industry is far too good at what it does
A 20% reduction on the amount of food available would be a major help

 

[glasshouse]

whats £40 a tonne on the price of a loaf of bread? 1T of flour produces 2T of bread or 2500 * 800g loaves lets be generous and say its 2000 loves to a tonne of wheat £40/2000 = 2p per loaf...

And your point is?