How low would sfp have to go till you tell them to keep it and farm as you want

Six Dogs

Member
Location
Wiltshire
I doubt they could inspect anyway. If you are not in receipt of SFP/BPS, the RPA would have no authorisation to inspect your compliance with the law. Compliance with the law would be covered by the relevant statutory authority, most likely the Environment Agency or the Local Authority, depending on the rule in question. The only power over you the RPA has is that you signed a legal document to comply with rules A,B and C in order to get £X. Don't sign that document, the RPA have no hold over you.

The whole system is predicated on the concept that because farmers take the subsidy money, they can be controlled by threatening to remove or fine them that money, with no real right of a fair trial or recourse to the rule of law. Remove that threat of withholding money, and its a whole new ball game. Suddenly the authorities would have to get warrants to enter premises, collect and preserve evidence to legal standards, make the case stand up in court. A bit harder than sending some bod round with a clipboard and then declaring they are unilaterally fining you 5% of your SFP.
That was always my belief but as a grazier receiving not a penny we have had 4 RPA inspections in 10 years,no non compliances either time,I did ask once what could they do if I told them to go jump?
The answer was make life difficult with Trading Standards etc?
 

GTB

Never Forgotten
Honorary Member
As I have said on other threads previously, I have a mate in the village who rents some ground and keeps some sheep and a few cattle as a hobby. He doesn't claim SFP/ BPS and therefore is under the radar and never gets an inspection. Trading standards wanted to give him a visit and he told them he worked from 8am to 6pm weekdays and Saturday mornings but they were welcome to call one evening or over the weekend. He's yet to hear back from them. The ag dept. have no interest in him as they can't penalize his payment. Bliss!
 

FarmyStu

Member
Location
NE Lincs
I doubt they could inspect anyway. If you are not in receipt of SFP/BPS, the RPA would have no authorisation to inspect your compliance with the law. Compliance with the law would be covered by the relevant statutory authority, most likely the Environment Agency or the Local Authority, depending on the rule in question. The only power over you the RPA has is that you signed a legal document to comply with rules A,B and C in order to get £X. Don't sign that document, the RPA have no hold over you.

The whole system is predicated on the concept that because farmers take the subsidy money, they can be controlled by threatening to remove or fine them that money, with no real right of a fair trial or recourse to the rule of law. Remove that threat of withholding money, and its a whole new ball game. Suddenly the authorities would have to get warrants to enter premises, collect and preserve evidence to legal standards, make the case stand up in court. A bit harder than sending some bod round with a clipboard and then declaring they are unilaterally fining you 5% of your SFP.
If you own sheep or cattle, you are liable to be inspected by the RPA. Irrespective of whether you're a BPS claimant. The EU dictate the number of inspections that must be done. The RPA carry them out. You could tell them to bugger off but you just received a whole herd restriction until you allow them on. If you're a claimant you'll lose the lot.

As mentioned, if a non claimants inspection goes badly, trading standards etc are informed. You're also more likely to get more and repeat inspections. If the herd problems are big enough, you'll also receive a whole herd restriction.

I'm not justifying any of this. Just telling it how it is. Don't give up your BPS in the belief you won't get inspected. You will.

Only talking England here. Can't speak for the rest of the UK.
 

rob1

Member
Location
wiltshire
If you own sheep or cattle, you are liable to be inspected by the RPA. Irrespective of whether you're a BPS claimant. The EU dictate the number of inspections that must be done. The RPA carry them out. You could tell them to bugger off but you just received a whole herd restriction until you allow them on. If you're a claimant you'll lose the lot.

As mentioned, if a non claimants inspection goes badly, trading standards etc are informed. You're also more likely to get more and repeat inspections. If the herd problems are big enough, you'll also receive a whole herd restriction.

I'm not justifying any of this. Just telling it how it is. Don't give up your BPS in the belief you won't get inspected. You will.

Only talking England here. Can't speak for the rest of the UK.
And why should any inspection go badly ? Just because someone doesnt make a claim doesnt have any bearing on their ability to farm
 

Goweresque

Member
Location
North Wilts
If you own sheep or cattle, you are liable to be inspected by the RPA. Irrespective of whether you're a BPS claimant. The EU dictate the number of inspections that must be done. The RPA carry them out. You could tell them to bugger off but you just received a whole herd restriction until you allow them on. If you're a claimant you'll lose the lot.

As mentioned, if a non claimants inspection goes badly, trading standards etc are informed. You're also more likely to get more and repeat inspections. If the herd problems are big enough, you'll also receive a whole herd restriction.

I'm not justifying any of this. Just telling it how it is. Don't give up your BPS in the belief you won't get inspected. You will.

Only talking England here. Can't speak for the rest of the UK.

No livestock here, so sounds good to me!
 

FarmyStu

Member
Location
NE Lincs
And why should any inspection go badly ? Just because someone doesnt make a claim doesnt have any bearing on their ability to farm
Agreed. Both claimants and non claimants inspections can go badly.

People on TFF are interested in farming and gaining knowledge. That's why they're on here and would, all things being equal, be more likely to get through an inspection without problems.

But trust me, there are "farmers" out there that if they hadn't been born in to it, wouldn't manage to hold down a job collecting litter. They need to be found. Inspections are one way of doing this.
 

MOG

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Llanthony
I came to the conclusion some time ago that marginal areas, such as where we are, cannot possibly compete in an international market to produce food at a price point that remains profitable in a post subsidy situation. It just is not possible. Perhaps if I had inherited 2000+ acres it might have been, but even that is debatable on our small densely populated island. However, I can quite happily produce food as a by product of producing something that society does want, and that is landscape, space for recreation, biodiversity, flood protection and other less tangible but equally valuable "goods". However, in the absence of some form of sub payment taken from taxation of society as a whole, I fail to see a way in which I can charge anyone for those things. I feel strongly that those things should be paid for by those who choose to live an urban existence while needing the countryside. Times change. People are no longer starving and/or working 6 days a week down t'mill. Most people are urbanised but have lots of free time and money to enjoy the countryside, or else have created problems by their sheer numbers in urban areas that only the countryside has the solutions.
 

FarmyStu

Member
Location
NE Lincs
I came to the conclusion some time ago that marginal areas, such as where we are, cannot possibly compete in an international market to produce food at a price point that remains profitable in a post subsidy situation. It just is not possible. Perhaps if I had inherited 2000+ acres it might have been, but even that is debatable on our small densely populated island. However, I can quite happily produce food as a by product of producing something that society does want, and that is landscape, space for recreation, biodiversity, flood protection and other less tangible but equally valuable "goods". However, in the absence of some form of sub payment taken from taxation of society as a whole, I fail to see a way in which I can charge anyone for those things. I feel strongly that those things should be paid for by those who choose to live an urban existence while needing the countryside. Times change. People are no longer starving and/or working 6 days a week down t'mill. Most people are urbanised but have lots of free time and money to enjoy the countryside, or else have created problems by their sheer numbers in urban areas that only the countryside has the solutions.
One of the best justifications I've seen for subs on this site.
 

glasshouse

Member
Location
lothians
No sensible business man is going to turn down amounts like 10k for the sake of half an afternoon filling in a form or chucking an agent a few hunderd to claim it for them weather they need the money or not ! if i had 20 million in my back pocket id claim in the low hundreds, look after the pennys the pounds look after themselves.
If half a day filling in forms was all it took it would be fine, but thats not the case.
 

Derrick Hughes

Member
Location
Ceredigion
In the 50ts an awful lot of land around here was sold and planted up with trees, as I can remeber returns for farming poor land were abismal , farmers saw this as a way out of their financial loss, then in the early 70ts came those lucrative grant scemes paying farmers to reclaim poor marginal land with many of us did, over the next 40 years farming was good and this land paid back many times over, so what off today. Drains silting up acid ground needing constant maintenance lime reseeding ect to keep it in good heart, if the food is not needed then what is the answer, seems like it's gone full circle
 

Hilly

Member
In the 50ts an awful lot of land around here was sold and planted up with trees, as I can remeber returns for farming poor land were abismal , farmers saw this as a way out of their financial loss, then in the early 70ts came those lucrative grant scemes paying farmers to reclaim poor marginal land with many of us did, over the next 40 years farming was good and this land paid back many times over, so what off today. Drains silting up acid ground needing constant maintenance lime reseeding ect to keep it in good heart, if the food is not needed then what is the answer, seems like it's gone full circle
Trees in abundance here again sadly.
 
We farm 150 acres and in a few years our sfp will drop to very little thinking of telling them to keep the money and farm how I want what's peoples thoughs

If I could, I can't but that's another story, earn above the average industrial wage without any cheques I'd happily tell them to shove it when the sun doesn't shine.

I don't like how others can influence my livelihood from farming. I suppose in my naivety when I started almost 20 years ago, that's not what I signed up for.

I find a lot of what goes on around CAP quite disgusting to be honest about it.
 

turbo

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
lincs
We are IN EUROPE at the moment and look at the state of things ?
Out cant be much worst ?????
Of course it could be a lot worse outside the eu,lisern to boris and the rest of the brexit people food bills down by about £2000 per person.they are not going to pay us more for our products so just import as much as they can to keep the prices down
 

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