How often do you need a non-cereal break?

[MattR]

Say you grow WW, WB, SB and oats (so have a take-all break) how often should you put in a break crop such as OSR/linseed/pulses/cauli/spuds? 1 year in 5? 6? 7?

 

[teslacoils]

If I could grow veg or spuds I'd be maximizing them. I think it's easier to work round take all than other issues namely profit, weeds etc.

 

[MattR]

If I could grow veg or spuds I'd be maximizing them. I think it's easier to work round take all than other issues namely profit, weeds etc.

Yes indeed, but a lot of veg/spuds (I guess depending on region) are grown by big growers renting ground from say arable farmers for whom it's an easy no-risk break. One minus for me is the possible soil compaction/erosion/damage compared to growing our own combinable break such as osr/linseed

 

[AndrewM]

multiple factors at play, how light is the land? takeall affects rooting so tend to have shorter runs of cereals on light land than on heavy land.
Oats give you your takeall break. so technically dont need another crop
other break crops have the advantage of allowing some variation in herbicides which is always useful for weed resistance management ect. pulses can fix a bit of nitrogen for you. spring breaks spread establishment workload/costs

in your rotation you could alternate the oats and other crop so 1:8

 

[teslacoils]

Yes indeed, but a lot of veg/spuds (I guess depending on region) are grown by big growers renting ground from say arable farmers for whom it's an easy no-risk break. One minus for me is the possible soil compaction/erosion/damage compared to growing our own combinable break such as osr/linseed

If you remove the roots, and osr which is a dead dodo, you don't have a huge number of options.

All these crops in my opinion benefit from being grow only one in six. So wheat, barley, oats, beans, linseed is not far our to make a mix from.

 

[DRC]

We happen to have 8 crops this year. Wheat, W barley, s barley, W Rye, OSR, Beet, Maize and grass.

 

[legin]

We happen to have 8 crops this year. Wheat, W barley, s barley, W Rye, OSR, Beet, Maize and grass.

No potatoes?

 

[DRC]

No potatoes?

Not this year

 

[Brisel]

Say you grow WW, WB, SB and oats (so have a take-all break) how often should you put in a break crop such as OSR/linseed/pulses/cauli/spuds? 1 year in 5? 6? 7?

It depends on your weed burden, soil type, logistics etc

Grass weeds = non cereal break crops required
Broad leafed weeds = cereal focussed rotation
A mix of weeds = a mixed rotation of crops
Good practice = a wide and diverse rotation using a range of crop species and sowing dates, with plenty of green cover between crops

 

[Mr Charisma]

I've always had a varied rotation, possibly why I'm still on top of my blackgrass,,,,,,,,, mostly
General tho there is Wheat, W Barley, S Barley, S Beans, W Beans, Linseed, Maize, Fallow, Temp Grass. Have a love hate relationship with peas, more hate tho and of course there is one missing, possibly one of the most important breaks we have grown over 50 years has to be ommited due to canker











Sorry I meant strokerS

 

[Mr Charisma]

Hmmm I didn't type "strokers"
How about WAN%£&S ?

 

[DrWazzock]

I am starting to think that the best break crop might be a low input cover crop. Leave it fallow for a year to build organic matter while doing something else. Then come back with cereals for two or three years then back to fallow cover.
Beans were like doing penance and can’t be any easier now with less herbicides. OSR has gone really. Sugar beet is getting rather a lot of hassle with weather extremes for the low price.
There is grass but not sure if really is a break for cereals then what do you do with it?
Been offered two groundwork jobs just this week but have my own drains to sort so turned them down. Didn’t really feel like the right decision financially.

 

[DRC]

I am starting to think that the best break crop might be a low input cover crop. Leave it fallow for a year to build organic matter while doing something else. Then come back with cereals for two or three years then back to fallow cover.
Beans were like doing penance and can’t be any easier now with less herbicides. OSR has gone really. Sugar beet is getting rather a lot of hassle with weather extremes for the low price.
There is grass but not sure if really is a break for cereals then what do you do with it?
Been offered two groundwork jobs just this week but have my own drains to sort so turned them down. Didn’t really feel like the right decision financially.

Not so bad if you have no rent to pay , but I can’t afford for a fallow situation unless it’s a paid stewardship scheme one

 

[Brisel]

Fallow doesn't cover your overheads unless you can do something that covers this e.g. restructure or take on other work. Fallow used to be a useful management tool hundreds of years ago, long before the chemical age - you just needed less serfs per acre.

 

[steveR]

Not so bad if you have no rent to pay , but I can’t afford for a fallow situation unless it’s a paid stewardship scheme one

I used to run a WW/WB/Fallow or WW/Fallow "rotation" a few years ago using Stewardship at the time on some non-roots land. Worked well. Would use a proper cover nowadays...

 

[teslacoils]

Id be tempted to broadcast a half rate of westerwolds into the standing wheat just so the fallow was kept alive.

 

[bumkin]

what about grass, then graze with sheep

 

[teslacoils]

The payments for sheep / mowing don't really cover the costs of doing it properly round here. Hence half rate westerwolds into stood crop might wash its face for some sheep grazing. Twice over with discs and oress, combi, roll, fancy grass mix only good for horse hay or your own cows.

 

[Bogweevil]

Fallow doesn't cover your overheads unless you can do something that covers this e.g. restructure or take on other work. Fallow used to be a useful management tool hundreds of years ago, long before the chemical age - you just needed less serfs per acre.

Technically you still needed plentiful serfs as the repeatedly ploughed ground set into hard lumps and you had to send the villains out with wooden mallets or beetles to break the clods to expose the couch roots to the elements. Black death thinned the serfs out a bit so estates had to go back to sheep keeping.

 

[MattR]

Thanks for the replies.
At the moment we have our land in 5 blocks in a 5 year rotation - 4 cereals (including oats) then rented out for cauliflower.
The caulis are fine to an extent - nice no-risk income every year and make a decent break crop.

Part of the reason for my question is that I've been wondering about the pros and cons of going down the no-till route - which done properly I'm guessing necessitates an all-combinable rotation? ie no roots/veg. Growing 4 cereals then a combinable break doesn't leave many choices - OSR seems to have a lot of issues these days (not grown here since I was at school so don't know much about it), linseed in my (2016) copy of Nix has an GM of £120/ac (avg), which is a big chunk down from the cauli rent (especially as the latter has no costs - diesel, man/tractor hours). And other options seem to be either low margin, high capital, untested or high risk.

Hence my question about break crops- if I grew, say, linseed and increased the cereal-break ratio, that would be a way to keep the overall average margin per acre acceptable, but agronomically would it increase the weed/pest burden too much (bearing in mind I've got the oats as a take-all break)? I mention the thought of direct drilling, but even if we stuck with ploughing etc it sometimes crosses my mind that a combinable break would be better for the ground than the compaction/erosion we sometimes get with caulis in a wet year.

Cheers