How small a herd to earn a living

[ste stuart]

just for curiosity more than anything but there's very few small dairy herds left within a large area from me, there was one near milked 65ish but think he's packed in.

So what's the minimum someone would need to earn a humble living from milking?

And also if a living can be earned at this size of herd, why aren't the 1000 strong herd men making millions?

Thanks

 

[Beef farmer]

They are, but they have borrowings and investments to make from profits.

 

[HasthorpeGrange]

What’s classed as a ‘humble living’?

 

[Beef farmer]

30k package?

 

[pappuller]

just for curiosity more than anything but there's very few small dairy herds left within a large area from me, there was one near milked 65ish but think he's packed in.

So what's the minimum someone would need to earn a humble living from milking?

And also if a living can be earned at this size of herd, why aren't the 1000 strong herd men making millions?

Thanks

My neighbours milk 60, v tidy place but dad and 2 sons all work locally off farm as well, don't go short but never seem to have much in the way of holidays or time off.

 

[Princess Pooper]

30k package?

Depends whether you mean an expectation of taking £30k worth from the business as drawings/private proportions or making £30k profit which covers drawings, capital investment and debt repayment. The latter is realistic, I would suggest the former is not for a small herd... especially if on rented land. And of course are we talking now - with support payments - or in 10 years time without direct support? We have a big HLS agreement which helps us to make a decent return as well as BPS. We moved up from 60 cows to 80 a couple of years ago, but also have the millstone of a family member running a loss-making sheep enterprise within the same business.

 

[Clay52]

They are, but they have borrowings and investments to make from profits.

This.

Most larger farms have required borrowings to get to the size they did. Also potentially good profit has been made but it’s all gone back into expanding the business. So the dollars are there as a paper value of the business rather than extra zeros in the bank account.

It different comparing the expanding farm to the 80 cow farm, handed down from the parents. No debt and the owner taking a modest wage out of it.

 

[endeavour]

I raise the question yet again how many labour units are required (men)per cow numbers ,doubt many are above one man per 100 cows including all relief and allied work.

 

[Beef farmer]

I raise the question yet again how many labour units are required (men)per cow numbers ,doubt many are above one man per 100 cows including all relief and allied work.

Including silage contractors?

 

[wasted years]

I have an acquaintance within the taxation industry that told me yesterday that he/she has clients in Cheshire making 'silly money' from dairy farming.
'Silly money' was mentioned within the context of making a million a year, there is plenty of wriggle room in there for the truth.
From my own experience if I had 80 paid for acres and 60 cows then there would be a living of sorts.

 

[dolf_lundgren]

I raise the question yet again how many labour units are required (men)per cow numbers ,doubt many are above one man per 100 cows including all relief and allied work.

Totally agree but the first 100/1 man is difficult as you never get any time off!

It is a good question as to where the sweet spot is. It is totally dependent on a lto of factors but the big guys do seem addicted to getting bigger, is it due to seeing a good return on investment or is it literally an addiction to growth and ego?

I would say 100 cows can make a decent living if you dont have massive borrowings and just relief milkers. Investment becomes the issue though, you probably wont make enough to replace the parlour/silage pit etc when the time comes.

 

[wasted years]

Totally agree but the first 100/1 man is difficult as you never get any time off!

It is a good question as to where the sweet spot is. It is totally dependent on a lto of factors but the big guys do seem addicted to getting bigger, is it due to seeing a good return on investment or is it literally an addiction to growth and ego?

I would say 100 cows can make a decent living if you dont have massive borrowings and just relief milkers. Investment becomes the issue though, you probably wont make enough to replace the parlour/silage pit etc when the time comes.

But if you are handy with the tools, sheds can be built as you go along out of cashflow, they don't have to go up in 6 weeks.
If you are the type that has to out source everything then it will always look expensive.
This and other factors always have separated out those that can survive and those that can't.

 

[dolf_lundgren]

Even better, then. Use the skills to charge people to put up their sheds in your spare time and make even more money!

 

[Chips]

Seem to do alright here with 65 cows, all calves reared to stores , 20 acres of arable to home use , all rented hill type farm , no staff and all work from hedge brushing to ploughing, mowing and baling done in house , contractor brings chopper and combine . OHLS scheme helps though , remove that and BPS and would still make profit but not what I would call a living

 

[endeavour]

Hope that replies to my previous comments highlight the variation in profitability due to levels of borrowing/rent etc. and endorses the opinion that there can never ever be a one size fits all approach to cop negotiations. Interestingly no one has replied yet with claims of 100 cows plus per man and as @dolf_lundgren indicated is a sentence of hard labour without the rewards of disposable reinvestment income with 100cows.

 

[happycows]

How much do you have too spend to get to day 1 of selling milk from your 65 cows is first question?

I’ve got what you ask of and we’ve been doing some serious head scratching and costs analysis resulting in some dramatic changes.

 

[Beef farmer]

Hope that replies to my previous comments highlight the variation in profitability due to levels of borrowing/rent etc. and endorses the opinion that there can never ever be a one size fits all approach to cop negotiations. Interestingly no one has replied yet with claims of 100 cows plus per man and as @dolf_lundgren indicated is a sentence of hard labour without the rewards of disposable reinvestment income with 100cows.

Were 125 cows per man carrying 350 ys units. 2 reliefs = 1 man in my sums

 

[Beef farmer]

Were 125 cows per man carrying 350 ys units. 2 reliefs = 1 man in my sums

Sorry its 130

 

[Beef farmer]

Sorry its 130

With out any r2s we will be comfortable at 160 cows per unit.

 

[happycows]

Were 125 cows per man carrying 350 ys units. 2 reliefs = 1 man in my sums

350 youngstock.