How the negotiations are being managed

[Exfarmer]

An interesting article in the Times today, regarding exit negotiations. Priority for the different industries has been revealed in a leaked document.
Unsurprisingly Car makers , pharmaceuticals aerospace etc. are considered at the highest level of importance.
I find it unsurprising that Agriculture does not even make it on to the lists!
Here is the actual report from The Times:-

The government has divided British industries into high, medium and low priority in the Brexit negotiations, leading to complaints from businesses and ministers, who described the leaked list as “dynamite”.

Ministers have been criticised for deciding that some sectors were more closely linked to the EU and therefore required special attention during the Brexit process, potentially at the expense of others.

This is leading to fears that some industries, including steel and the business services sector, which are marked “low” priority, will not get the help that they believe is necessary. According to a government document obtained by The Times, the high priority industries include pharmaceuticals, carmaking, textiles and clothing, aerospace and air transport.

The medium-priority industries include electronics, fisheries, chemicals and furniture, and low priorities include steel, construction, oil and gas, telecoms, environmental services, water and medical.

The list appeared in a document prepared by officials and circulated in November. A government spokesman said: “We do not comment on partial accounts of leaked documents . . . We have been doing detailed work to prepare for the negotiation, analysing more than 50 sectors and cross-cutting issues.”

 

[wasted years]

I'm finding it hard to care about Brexit anymore.
Something will happen , only afterwards will we know if it is good or bad.

 

[RobFZS]

I find any leak The Times, in particular anything Sam Coates has anything to do with, very unbelievable, it usually fulfils the confirmation bias that Sam Coates peddles.

Same sh!t with that Deloitte's lot.

 

[DrDunc]

It's easy to discredit the reporter instead of discussing the content.

The Brexit white paper has this to say about the uk agriculture and fishing industries:

8.15 With respect to agriculture and food, the UK is a net importer of agri-food goods. Whilst UK exports of agriculture, fisheries and food products to the EU were £11 billion in 2015, imports were £28 billion and over 70 per cent of our annual agri-food imports come from the EU.49 This underlines the UK and EU’s mutual interest in ensuring continued high levels of market access in future. In addition, and with EU spend on CAP at around €58 billion in 2014 (nearly 40 per cent of the EU’s budget),50 leaving the EU offers the UK a significant opportunity to design new, better and more efficient policies for delivering sustainable and productive farming, land management and rural communities. This will enable us to deliver our vision for a world-leading food and farming industry and a cleaner, healthier environment, benefiting people and the economy.

8.16 In 2015, EU vessels caught 683,000 tonnes (£484 million revenue) in UK waters and UK vessels caught 111,000 tonnes (£114 million revenue) in Member States’ waters.51 Given the heavy reliance on UK waters of the EU fishing industry and the importance of EU waters to the UK, it is in both our interests to reach a mutually beneficial deal that works for the UK and the EU’s fishing communities. Following EU exit, we will want to ensure a sustainable and profitable seafood sector and deliver a cleaner, healthier and more productive marine environment.

So there you have it, two paragraphs in a 77 page document full of inconclusive waffle.

If you're a fisherman who voted for Brexit thinking you'd get your waters back (and they are the only population segment of Scotland to vote for Brexit), it's clear that your are going to be shafted by Westminster.

A"mutually beneficial deal that works for UK and EU fishing community's". So Westminster won't be giving Scotland back their fishing rights to our coastal waters.

Slightly better news for farming, unless you're a hill sheep producer that destroys the environment according to Monbiot. No payments for you.




Why does anyone think Westminster will listen to the agricultural industry? We will be a bargaining chip tossed onto the table and forgotten.

Theresa May ignores 58 out of 59 Scottish mp's voting against a hard Brexit, 62% of the Scottish population voting against Brexit, and an overwhelming vote by the devolved parliament to reject article 50 as it currently is proposed.

Anyone who thinks agriculture and fishing isn't going to be thrown to the wolves is as deluded as those who believed the campaign slogans spouted by Johnson, Gove, et. al..

 

[Danllan]

We agree that this is worded in such a way as to make our intention to rely on imported foodstuffs look ongoing. But how else would you play your hand with a major food-exporting block prior to negotiating with them?

 

[turbo]

I Used to think like you about agriculture being thrown under the bus but after meeting with mps I am not so sure it will be,it's dawning on them now if something goes wrong in the supply chain the buck stops with them and they don't like it.they have had a cushy life for years blaming Europe for most of our problems when infact they were Mainly home grown problems but took no responsibility for them.Its going to be a big change for them being directly responsible to the people that elect them

 

[DrDunc]

I Used to think like you about agriculture being thrown under the bus but after meeting with mps I am not so sure it will be,it's dawning on them now if something goes wrong in the supply chain the buck stops with them and they don't like it.they have had a cushy life for years blaming Europe for most of our problems when infact they were Mainly home grown problems but took no responsibility for them.Its going to be a big change for them being directly responsible to the people that elect them

You mean like Jeremy Hunt is taking responsibility for the catastrophic failings of the English NHS?

No, he's doing exactly what the Westminster politicians have always done, and will continue to do; he's blaming the NHS staff for long waiting times and cancelled operations when there's no beds.



When there's further food price hikes post Brexit, it will be us farmers that get the blame, not the government.

We'll then be told to produce more for less.

 

[RobFZS]

You mean like Jeremy Hunt is taking responsibility for the catastrophic failings of the English NHS?

No, he's doing exactly what the Westminster politicians have always done, and will continue to do; he's blaming the NHS staff for long waiting times and cancelled operations when there's no beds.



When there's further food price hikes post Brexit, it will be us farmers that get the blame, not the government.

We'll then be told to produce more for less.

And what are they going to do about it? Protest at your farm gate? threaten to privatise us ?

 

[SilliamWhale]

You mean like Jeremy Hunt is taking responsibility for the catastrophic failings of the English NHS?

No, he's doing exactly what the Westminster politicians have always done, and will continue to do; he's blaming the NHS staff for long waiting times and cancelled operations when there's no beds.



When there's further food price hikes post Brexit, it will be us farmers that get the blame, not the government.

We'll then be told to produce more for less.

But you can't blame Jeremy Hunt for the failings of the NHS either...

 

[DrDunc]

And what are they going to do about it? Protest at your farm gate? threaten to privatise us ?

They'll import cheaper food for concessions on financial trading of course, I would of thought that was obvious to even someone as blinkered as yourself.

 

[RobFZS]

They'll import cheaper food for concessions on financial trading of course, I would of thought that was obvious to even someone as blinkered as yourself.

You just said food prices would rise though??! post brexit , so the deal would be done

 

[turbo]

They'll import cheaper food for concessions on financial trading of course, I would of thought that was obvious to even someone as blinkered as yourself.

If that's how you feel you might as well sell up now while your farm has a value.As for the NHS until we the British public have a grown up conversation about what it should do and not do all the money in the world will not make it better

 

[Grassman]

You mean like Jeremy Hunt is taking responsibility for the catastrophic failings of the English NHS?

No, he's doing exactly what the Westminster politicians have always done, and will continue to do; he's blaming the NHS staff for long waiting times and cancelled operations when there's no beds.

The real people to blame for the nhs problems are us.
We are living too long and there's too many of us.
The nhs needs a massive change and it's going to be very expensive!

 

[DrDunc]

You just said food prices would rise though??! post brexit , so the deal would be done

Food prices rise, farmers get the blame, justifying cheaper (subsidised) imports as a concession for most likely financial trade into Europe. Westminster looks like they're helping the population, and they retain the huge income from the industries they think are important.

Not really difficult to follow is it? Unless you're being deliberately obtuse?



The Brexit white paper explicitly states that the fishing industry waters will be shared with the EU. It also states that EU food imports are important. Why aren't you commenting upon these rather important points?

 

[RobFZS]

Food prices rise, farmers get the blame, justifying cheaper (subsidised) imports as a concession for most likely financial trade into Europe. Westminster looks like they're helping the population, and they retain the huge income from the industries they think are important.

Not really difficult to follow is it? Unless you're being deliberately obtuse?



The Brexit white paper explicitly states that the fishing industry waters will be shared with the EU. It also states that EU food imports are important. Why aren't you commenting upon these rather important points?

You said, food prices will rise post brexit, the deal will be done by then, there will be no backsies for Concessions on financial trade, as the deal will have been done, so once the deal is done, and food prices supposedly rise and we all get plagued, how can they go back, on a done deal and renegotiate it? Maybe in your little world they can, but it doesn't happen, as they said, no cherry picking, once its' done, its done.

Are you suggesting we block all food coming from the EU so we have only British food in the shops?! Sounds almost Trump like.

Also, how are we going to stop sharing waters with the eu? there are no borders in the Sea ?!

 

[Grassman]

Food prices rise, farmers get the blame, justifying cheaper (subsidised) imports as a concession for most likely financial trade into Europe. Westminster looks like they're helping the population, and they retain the huge income from the industries they think are important.

Not really difficult to follow is it? Unless you're being deliberately obtuse?



The Brexit white paper explicitly states that the fishing industry waters will be shared with the EU. It also states that EU food imports are important. Why aren't you commenting upon these rather important points?

EU food imports are important in the wider picture.
Unfortunately the world doesn't revolve round us farmers!
Ask the general public. We won't be at the top of any list of neediness of money I'm afraid.

 

[RobFZS]

While we're at it, That Great farmers friend the Eu, has just done a deal with Canada, here's abit about the Beef imports from Canada

Beef: One of the most important elements for Canada in this negotiation has been beef, notably fresh beef. The total duty-free access the EU will grant to Canada for beef amounts to 45,838 tonnes (expressed in carcass weight equivalent - CWE), of which 30,838 tonnes are fresh beef. To this volume, should be added the bilateral consolidation of the existing 4,162 tonnes CWE of fresh beef that the EU had already granted to Canada in the past as compensation for the hormones dispute. All of the above corresponds to about 0.6% of the total EU consumption. There will also be an EU TRQ for 3,000 tonnes of bison, which will apply at entry into force of CETA. Finally, the existing WTO TRQ for Hilton beef (11,500 tonnes, expressed in product weight5 , shared between Canada and the US) will be maintained, but the in-quota duty will be brought to zero for Canada.

http://trade.ec.europa.eu/doclib/docs/2014/december/tradoc_152982.pdf

And then there's little on going public consultation of the CAP being further cut down, but you all don't need to hear about that.

 

[DrDunc]

You said, food prices will rise post brexit, the deal will be done by then, there will be no backsies for Concessions on financial trade, as the deal will have been done, so once the deal is done, and food prices supposedly rise and we all get plagued, how can they go back, on a done deal and renegotiate it? Maybe in your little world they can, but it doesn't happen, as they said, no cherry picking, once its' done, its done.

Are you suggesting we block all food coming from the EU so we have only British food in the shops?! Sounds almost Trump like.

Also, how are we going to stop sharing waters with the eu? there are no borders in the Sea ?!

You seem to be under the misapprehension that there will be a deal struck, then post Brexit that's it done and dusted.

This shortsighted belief is typical of the sound bite politics that has led us to this ludicrous situation.

How long has it taken for a deal to be struck between Canada and the EU? And you think Brexit will be accomplished in two years?



I am now beginning to understand why it's easier for Brexit campaigners and supporters to attack the person delivering information contradictory to their beliefs.

When you question why fishing in territorial waters should/could be restricted, it shows just how narrow your knowledge base actually is.

It was a key area of Brexit campaigning that we would regain control of our fishing stocks, and yet straight away the government outlines it's intention to use them as a bargaining chip.

Farming may well be unimportant to the majority of people, but it is somewhat pertinent to the vast majority of people on this forum!!!!!





Instead of trying to score points off people who have divergent opinions from your own, wouldn't it be somewhat more productive to lobby the Westminster mob for the best possible deal for our industry?

 

[7610 super q]

Due to the amount of Brexit content in the above thread, I think this should be moved to the Brexit section.

 

[turbo]

EU food imports are important in the wider picture.
Unfortunately the world doesn't revolve round us farmers!
Ask the general public. We won't be at the top of any list of neediness of money I'm afraid.

I Bet we will be higher up the list with the general public than bankers and the city,stop talking down farming it's a brave new world out there and we have to grab ever chance we get to put farming at the front