How to correct twin disc pattern cock-up?

using liquid has its problems the specific weight varies depending on product and temperature this leads to inaccurate reading through most sprayer flow metres they need calibrateing for each product
some rate controllers are also quite slow at varying the rate with speed changes and when sections are shut

I have found the amazone spread pattern trays to be quite accurate as long as I do every product every year

on balance there is not much between solid or liquid but the liquid costs considerably more

how accurate do we need to be when the optimum rate on wheat varies by 50 kg of n or more from year to year and we only know after the event what was the optimum and if you over do it in wheat the extra is used by the following rape crop
 
It looks almost as if one of your discs is applying massively more than the other. The tray on the tramline is very full, the other three are fairly similar.
Was one side of the spreader emptying before the other?

You could do with doing a proper tray test, 12 trays spaced out evenly between two tramlines. Drive up one tramline and back down the other. Weigh them all and see what the full spread looks like.
I will just double check the opening settings, but we did check them yesterday. You can definitely see some smashed up prills straight behind the spreader which may be contributing a bit.

The Amazone test kit has 16 trays. We did a second test as you describe across the full 24m (i.e. 12m out on each side from the tramline) and got the same sort of pattern on both sides which would suggest that one disc isn't applying much more than the other.
 
Is it a za-m spreader? Increasing the short vane position will throw the fert away from behind the tractor but by how much to adjust it would be trial and error, was your machine set level? Never had any problems with blue bag spread patterns personally, did the fert look in good condition?
I went out and tray tested the newer Amazone spreader today (both z-am spreaders) and the pattern on that's not great either. Too much at 12m and straight behind the tractor, and not enough at 4m and 8m. With the Amatron box you read off the scale markers and put them into the box and it gives a correction for both vane positions. Problem was it wanted us to increase the number on the short vane and decrease on the long vane.

On the first adjustment we just about managed this, although at the long vane was right at the end of its travel. Then went and tray tested again and the pattern seemed nearly as bad. Input the new values into the box and got roughly the same adjustment, except now there was no further adjustment on the long vane. Adjusted the short vane as dictated and tested again. Pattern still not great, but the 12m amount was improved with no improvement in the 0m against expectation.

At this point we gave up. Going to ring Amazone tomorrow and see what they say.
 

Clive

Staff Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lichfield
I went out and tray tested the newer Amazone spreader today (both z-am spreaders) and the pattern on that's not great either. Too much at 12m and straight behind the tractor, and not enough at 4m and 8m. With the Amatron box you read off the scale markers and put them into the box and it gives a correction for both vane positions. Problem was it wanted us to increase the number on the short vane and decrease on the long vane.

On the first adjustment we just about managed this, although at the long vane was right at the end of its travel. Then went and tray tested again and the pattern seemed nearly as bad. Input the new values into the box and got roughly the same adjustment, except now there was no further adjustment on the long vane. Adjusted the short vane as dictated and tested again. Pattern still not great, but the 12m amount was improved with no improvement in the 0m against expectation.

At this point we gave up. Going to ring Amazone tomorrow and see what they say.
keep posting and they might ring you first ;)
 

sleepy

Member
Location
Devon, UK
I went out and tray tested the newer Amazone spreader today (both z-am spreaders) and the pattern on that's not great either. Too much at 12m and straight behind the tractor. With the Amatron box you read off the scale markers and put them into the box and it gives a correction for both vane positions. Problem was it wanted us to increase the number on the short vane and decrease on the long vane.

On the first adjustment we just about managed this, although at the long vane was right at the end of its travel. Then went and tray tested again and the pattern seemed nearly as bad. Input the new values into the box and got roughly the same adjustment, except now there was no further adjustment on the long vane. Adjusted the short vane as dictated and tested again. Pattern still not great, but the 12m amount was improved with no improvement in the 0m against expectation.

At this point we gave up. Going to ring Amazone tomorrow and see what they say.
Just buy a Kuhn spreader, lay the trays out, take a random guess at the drop point. Run over the trays and see what it looks like. If it's too much in the middle increase drop point etc and repeat test.
I would be horrified if I got a tray test like yours even with the drop point setting being completely wrong.
We got twelve trays to within 4 grams of a 100 gram sample with a cheapish urea a few weeks ago with two tweaks of drop point. I can cope with 4% variation.
 

Badshot

Member
Location
Kent
Just wondering, with such poor tray tests does it show in striped crops?


I'm a lazy bugger, just get settings from kverneland app. The only stuff that's striped the crops was blended urea and sulphur.

Might have to get some more trays, got some with the old sulky thst I kept.
 
Last year I got the opening set incorrectly on one side of the spreader and was applying at 500 kg/ha rather than 375 kg/ha. Never noticed any visual difference in the crop at harvest. Combine yield meter was rubbish so didn't pick anything up on that either. They say the visual difference between a 10 t/ha crop and a 13 odd t/ha crop isn't much. Maybe we got something extra for that extra 100 kg/ha, but as far as I'm concerned it was largely wasted.

Lesson from that is that it's easy to waste fert without noticing it.
 
Just buy a Kuhn spreader, lay the trays out, take a random guess at the drop point. Run over the trays and see what it looks like. If it's too much in the middle increase drop point etc and repeat test.
I would be horrified if I got a tray test like yours even with the drop point setting being completely wrong.
We got twelve trays to within 4 grams of a 100 gram sample with a cheapish urea a few weeks ago with two tweaks of drop point. I can cope with 4% variation.
This was today's effort with a much newer and fancier spreader:
2016-05-04 14.52.12.jpg


When you're spending a few hundred thousand on the stuff and it's still not acceptable even after two iterations of vane corrections it start to grate somewhat. Need some more accurate scales to measure the difference in weight because the scales on those collectors are meaningless. Will have to have a word with our local drug dealer because mine only do whole grams.
 

Jim75

Member
Location
Inverness
Most spreaders in our locality that have striped terribly have been amazone. One has had constant problems getting an even spread. Tried all kinds of things that dealer/manufacturer has recommended but still the same.
 

sleepy

Member
Location
Devon, UK
This was today's effort with a much newer and fancier spreader:
View attachment 324242

When you're spending a few hundred thousand on the stuff and it's still not acceptable even after two iterations of vane corrections it start to grate somewhat. Need some more accurate scales to measure the difference in weight because the scales on those collectors are meaningless. Will have to have a word with our local drug dealer because mine only do whole grams.
Seems a stupid way to design the measuring cylinder!

I'll sell you my Kuhn axis if you like, spreads deadly accurately yours for just 2.5k!
 

Sandy

Member
Location
Aberdeenshire
Most spreaders in our locality that have striped terribly have been amazone. One has had constant problems getting an even spread. Tried all kinds of things that dealer/manufacturer has recommended but still the same.
It must be a Northern thing there's 4 around here they all strip badly 2 have gone liquid and another bought a Kuhn
 

Jim75

Member
Location
Inverness
It must be a Northern thing there's 4 around here they all strip badly 2 have gone liquid and another bought a Kuhn
Don't know what it is about them, I'd never buy one purely for that reason. One mentioned was an absolute cracker, in fact he's a lurker maybe he can say what the outcome was. Welcome along (y) Swapped my kuhn for a kv and happy with it so far.
 

Fuzzy

Member
Location
Bedfordshire
It's been a long few days, I'm not sure how you will make it completely even, just even it up a bit and put it down as a life lesson.
I had to fit 18m discs to our 24m machine to correct a wrongly set vane one year !
This was today's effort with a much newer and fancier spreader:
View attachment 324242

When you're spending a few hundred thousand on the stuff and it's still not acceptable even after two iterations of vane corrections it start to grate somewhat. Need some more accurate scales to measure the difference in weight because the scales on those collectors are meaningless. Will have to have a word with our local drug dealer because mine only do whole grams.
Can you not get hold of Amazone and ask them to come and set it up correctly ? Surely they must have someone who knows what they are doing even if it costs a few quid ?
 

Honest john

Member
Location
Fenland
I use the book ,app, settings and away you go.

If I got the trays out I would be head scratching like you.
After all the settings have been tested in a lab.

I am using solid for 1st & 3rd pass with liquid for the 2nd.
 
I had to fit 18m discs to our 24m machine to correct a wrongly set vane one year !

Can you not get hold of Amazone and ask them to come and set it up correctly ? Surely they must have someone who knows what they are doing even if it costs a few quid ?
First thing on the list to do tomorrow morning. And then BPS Online...
 

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