How to correct twin disc pattern cock-up?

[Badshot]

Another day out with the trays giving the same result to start:


First two applications were DAP and Double Top and generally they appear visually to be OK. I used the book settings (adjusted a bit after one tray test) last year and everything looked OK. I'm not happy just for it to look OK though. That pattern (i.e. high in the tramline and at 12m) on every test we've done with this spreader so I know it's not right.

The control program in the box seems a bit useless too. Until we radically changed the vane settings it kept telling us to reduce the long vane setting and increase the short vane setting. In the end we got to this:
View attachment 325260

Only problem was that we were at the limit of travel on both vanes. Hopeless!

What fert is it? And are you using the right discs?


I'm so glad I haven't been arsed to do a tray test.........

 

[Feldspar]

What fert is it? And are you using the right discs?


I'm so glad I haven't been arsed to do a tray test.........

Nitram. Using OM 24-36 discs.

 

[Badshot]

Nitram. Using OM 24-36 discs.

Do you have different ones to try?
Nitram is sp5, so will be right at the lowest end of those discs capabilities?

 

[Badshot]

Also, is the spreader the right height above the ground/crop?

 

[Feldspar]

Do you have different ones to try?
Nitram is sp5, so will be right at the lowest end of those discs capabilities?

Tested our old Amazone on 18-24 discs the day before. It gave this:

Completely different vane settings. PTO driven rather than hydraulic. Different tractor, field, set of bags etc. yet still rubbish.

 

[Badshot]

Tested our old Amazone on 18-24 discs the day before. It gave this:
View attachment 325310

Completely different vane settings. PTO driven rather than hydraulic. Different tractor, field, set of bags etc. yet still rubbish.

I'm going to do a test or two next time I'm spreading with my kv.

Just be interesting to see what the results are like, I'll be doing urea and AN.

I did test the sulky years ago and it was pretty good, but striped like feck with urea sulphur blends.

 

[KennyO]

I had scs in for first time this Year. Was 250 well spent. I also changed my amazone to a kuhn cause the amazone was so complicated o set.

When discussing the old amazone spreader the scs man said he normally moved long vane up two or three for every one point of the short vane.

 

[Feldspar]

I had scs in for first time this Year. Was 250 well spent. I also changed my amazone to a kuhn cause the amazone was so complicated o set.

When discussing the old amazone spreader the scs man said he normally moved long vane up two or three for every one point of the short vane.

Have booked both spreaders in to be tested by SCS in the next day or so. Will be interesting to see what they can achieve.

 

[Hampton]

Hi
Have they been yet? Did they alter the settings much?

 

[Feldspar]

Hi
Have they been yet? Did they alter the settings much?

No, they were set to come this morning but in the end the rain came in earlier than expected. Had 10mm today which will help the late drilled spring barley. They're going to come out on Monday all being well. Initial impressions are that they seem a very efficient company to deal with.

In the end I ended up putting on 15t yesterday evening on the spring barley. Was in two minds - either wait and hopefully get the spread pattern right, but then risk another dry period, or make sure that we had something washed in the ground.

 

[Hampton]

No, they were set to come this morning but in the end the rain came in earlier than expected. Had 10mm today which will help the late drilled spring barley. They're going to come out on Monday all being well. Initial impressions are that they seem a very efficient company to deal with.

In the end I ended up putting on 15t yesterday evening on the spring barley. Was in two minds - either wait and hopefully get the spread pattern right, but then risk another dry period, or make sure that we had something washed in the ground.

Hi, probably a silly question, but have you checked your agitator chain?
Apparently it is a common fault when the crop is paler near to the tramlines.

 

[Feldspar]

Hi, probably a silly question, but have you checked your agitator chain?
Apparently it is a common fault when the crop is paler near to the tramlines.

Thanks for the suggestion - will have a look. We were getting more fertiliser dropping nearer to the tramlines (and more at 12m compared to 4m and 8m) rather than less though.

 

[DieselRob]

Just a thought do you think your discs on the hydro are turning at the correct speed? Do you have a friendly mechanic with a little gadget to test disc speed? What condition are the vanes in? Fairly smooth or rippled? I assume when you say your vanes are at their most extreme settings you mean short vane forward and long vane back? This won't produce a sensible pattern in any circumstance as it won't give the overlap

Really clutching at straws here and there is no offence intended but are your discs on the correct way round? There was a story of a farmer in France who spread a lot of fert with the discs on backwards which caused bad striping, it shouldn't be physically possible to get it wrong but this 1 somehow did

 

[Feldspar]

Just a thought do you think your discs on the hydro are turning at the correct speed? Do you have a friendly mechanic with a little gadget to test disc speed? What condition are the vanes in? Fairly smooth or rippled? I assume when you say your vanes are at their most extreme settings you mean short vane forward and long vane back? This won't produce a sensible pattern in any circumstance as it won't give the overlap

Really clutching at straws here and there is no offence intended but are your discs on the correct way round? There was a story of a farmer in France who spread a lot of fert with the discs on backwards which caused bad striping, it shouldn't be physically possible to get it wrong but this 1 somehow did

You're right to think of stupid mistakes, because having done the normal checks that's all that seems to be left.

On the Amatron 3 box it does give you the disc speed (which is set at 720 rpm as it should be I think). Occasionally the discs can be lazy to get back up to speed when the fertiliser first lands on the disc after coming out of the headland. We did check though that the box said the discs were up to speed before going over the trays. It might be that the box is not giving an accurate reading.

We bought new hard-faced vanes last year. At the time I almost sent them back because they were nowhere near as smooth as the cheaper Amazone vanes. Having looked a new set, however, this is how them seem to be. I haven't noticed much wear since they were new and so I don't think it's that.

After the first two adjustments we were spreading with the vanes set with the short vane right forward and the long vane right back as you say. I don't really have a lot of faith in the recommendations given by the Amatron 3. Looking at our crops again today I can't see any striping which you think you might get with such a bad pattern.

SCS should be out on Monday so we'll wait to see what they come up with. Thanks for the suggestions.

 

[robbie]

Are you sure it's not the hard faced vanes themselves causing the problem? Have you tried it with new normal amazone vanes?

 

[Feldspar]

Are you sure it's not the hard faced vanes themselves causing the problem? Have you tried it with new normal amazone vanes?

Not that machine, but the old spreader has new normal vanes which have a very smooth surface. Its spread pattern was equally poor so I don't think it's that.

 

[yellow belly]

I have a za ts with spreader test kit and test the products I have the setting from amazone app when tested with the trays needed adjusting which the machine does automatically through the amatron 3 I would never rely on the amazone settings without using the trays as product and vane settings can vary


I know some one who compared the amazone test kit and scs on the same run and came up with the same settings

I spread 27 m using urea and urea plus sulphur from bunns all deliverd from the same batch

 

[Feldspar]

Well we had SCS out this morning. Perfect day for it with very little wind.

Firstly, I have been very impressed with SCS as a company. They have been very flexible, efficient and professional. They would have been able to come at the drop of a hat, then were happy to rearrange to suit us / weather and then turned up and just got on with the job.

Jim put out about 36 trays over nearly three tramlines and we tested both spreaders with Nitram and Double Top. The result was that both spreaders put out a near perfect spread pattern on both products. There was one that sloped off a bit to one side, but Jim thought this might have been because the actuator hadn't opened fully. We tested again and got a good result.

To be quite honest, whilst somewhat bewildered by the result, I accept it as reliable. SCS were very thorough, checking PTO speeds, vane rpm and particulate size distribution of a sample of each fertiliser. Jim commented that he had a spreader which some Amazone people tried to correct at the same time as he did. They used their trays and their computer programmes and it took them something like 4 iterations to be happy. Jim did one tray test and then gave one vane correction. In the end the two vane settings were the same. I'm not sure why my way of using the trays (which is as per Amazone recommendations) is throwing up such strange results.

To say I am quite relieved is a mild understatement. Both spreaders went off spreading this afternoon and it's so much more pleasurable doing a job when you know it's being done properly. Blue skies, radiant sun on some nice looking spring barley, spreading in front of some rain chomping nicely through the acres. Nice to remember what there is to like about fertiliser spreading.

 

[General-Lee]

Well we had SCS out this morning. Perfect day for it with very little wind.

Firstly, I have been very impressed with SCS as a company. They have been very flexible, efficient and professional. They would have been able to come at the drop of a hat, then were happy to rearrange to suit us / weather and then turned up and just got on with the job.

Jim put out about 36 trays over nearly three tramlines and we tested both spreaders with Nitram and Double Top. The result was that both spreaders put out a near perfect spread pattern on both products. There was one that sloped off a bit to one side, but Jim thought this might have been because the actuator hadn't opened fully. We tested again and got a good result.

To be quite honest, whilst somewhat bewildered by the result, I accept it as reliable. SCS were very thorough, checking PTO speeds, vane rpm and particulate size distribution of a sample of each fertiliser. Jim commented that he had a spreader which some Amazone people tried to correct at the same time as he did. They used their trays and their computer programmes and it took them something like 4 iterations to be happy. Jim did one tray test and then gave one vane correction. In the end the two vane settings were the same. I'm not sure why my way of using the trays (which is as per Amazone recommendations) is throwing up such strange results.

To say I am quite relieved is a mild understatement. Both spreaders went off spreading this afternoon and it's so much more pleasurable doing a job when you know it's being done properly. Blue skies, radiant sun on some nice looking spring barley, spreading in front of some rain chomping nicely through the acres. Nice to remember what there is to like about fertiliser spreading.

That's good then![emoji106]

I've forgotten what was said now, but was there any visible striping?

 

[Feldspar]

That's good then![emoji106]

I've forgotten what was said now, but was there any visible striping?

Have been out and about today and I can't see anything. Think the panic might be over! Not sure whether to chuck the Amazone trays in the bin (or put them on Ebay).