How to do a better job of sheep farming

[Andy545]

We currently run a flock of 500 texel x ewes and 50 head of Limosine x Sucklers.

The cattle are doing really well throughing plenty of good calves and all selling for a tidy price at market.

Our sheep however seem to be getting more and more un prolific every year, we scanned last year at 130%. We blood tested some ewes and they have come back deficuemt in Selinium and Iodine, so consequently in October we boluses all ewes.

We also seem to be buying way to many lamb nuts per year, we are growing 10 acres of turnips to try and get the corn bill down though.

I feel like we're doing a crap job of thd sheep and would appreciate any advice? Any suggestions?

Thanks,

Andy

 

[milkloss]

Kind of had the same issue here but our intention was to increase the beef and lower the sheep numbers as we went. Really needed to find keep for the sheep rather than over winter at home. Made the decision to sell the sheep early and for the beef this was a good move. Better and earlier grass, moved calving earlier etc etc.Nice little income from the sheep which we miss though.

 

[Optimus]

Our sheep were heading much the same direction.good lambs but not enough of them.so started using lleyn to try up the %.lost a bit of the shape but gained in number of lambs.also find the lleyn don't eat as much feed, have plenty milk and don't seem to give as many problems as the tex x ewes

 

[unlacedgecko]

When I'm selecting rams I always remember the following lines.... #you've got to have them to raise them. (fecundity comes 1st) #You can't make a dead lamb grow. ( Survival comes 2nd) #Kilos pay dollars, grades pay cents (Growth rate comes 3rd ahead of carcass shape). Having said that I also try to remember #A dollar saved is a dollar earned (Low cost sheep are easier farmed than High cost sheep)

The above sums it up for me.

 

[M-J-G]

The above sums it up for me.

What's so great about it?

We rear lamb from grass, and we'd not have to feed concentrate if grass grew for most of the season like it does 200 miles south of here, and it will be growing less again further north.

But the reality is that this year our grass hasn't grown in the last few weeks, so unless we rent winter grass or things get very growthy this December/January, we'll feed a little concentrate.

My query is, given his location, why would the likes of Mr Hulme ever even have considered feeding concentrate when it's so easy from grass in that neck of the woods to do it with grass.

 

[Tim W]

We currently run a flock of 500 texel x ewes and 50 head of Limosine x Sucklers.

The cattle are doing really well throughing plenty of good calves and all selling for a tidy price at market.

Our sheep however seem to be getting more and more un prolific every year, we scanned last year at 130%. We blood tested some ewes and they have come back deficuemt in Selinium and Iodine, so consequently in October we boluses all ewes.

We also seem to be buying way to many lamb nuts per year, we are growing 10 acres of turnips to try and get the corn bill down though.

I feel like we're doing a crap job of thd sheep and would appreciate any advice? Any suggestions?

Thanks,

Andy

Get yourself a decent specialist vet in
Gradual diminishing performance could be down to a whole host of things
1) Minerals?
2) Iceberg disease? MV/OPA/OJD
3) Poor nutrition ?
4) Large resistant parasite burden ?

£1200 on a specialist vet (years contract) plus a few diagnostics will pinpoint the problem & you will lose much more than that if they continue going down hill

 

[tinsheet]

Grass only grows for 6 months here, it's not all beer and skittles down south!

 

[unlacedgecko]

What's so great about it?

We rear lamb from grass, and we'd not have to feed concentrate if grass grew for most of the season like it does 200 miles south of here, and it will be growing less again further north.

But the reality is that this year our grass hasn't grown in the last few weeks, so unless we rent winter grass or things get very growthy this December/January, we'll feed a little concentrate.

My query is, given his location, why would the likes of Mr Hulme ever even have considered feeding concentrate when it's so easy from grass in that neck of the woods to do it with grass.

I meant both quotes in concert.

I’d rather rent winter grass than feed concentrate. But if it works for you then it works for you.

 

[neilo]

Grass only grows for 6 months here, it's not all beer and skittles down south!

Not at Ellesmere. But the principle is right.

We had a sheep group meeting the other night, looking at benchmarking. One thing that was discussed, by someone that goes round doing business plans on lots of farms, was that stocking rate was the most important factor to profitability on most farms, and that was mostly set by wintering system. On the majority of farms visited, the sheep are let run overall the grass area, all winter, which makes for delayed growth in the Spring, so a reduced carrying capacity, which makes for too much grass/poorer quality later in the season. On those farms, getting sheep off that grass over winter was key to increasing output per ha, whether by tacking, growing root crops (usually the cheapest option, where you can), housing or even cell grazing over winter.

In the OP’s case, something is obviously wrong if lowland ewes are only scanning at 130%, but it looks like he’s on to it via blood testing & bolusing from the results. IME Iodine deficiency will certainly depress scanning %age significantly, but it might not be the only issue. I would also suggest retesting them a month or so after bolusing, to see if they’ve done enough. It appears boluses aren’t providing enough Iodine here these days, and I have seen significant improvements in thrive & condition from drenching with Potassium Iodide in addition. Every farm will be different though.

 

[ajcc]

Minerals and ram fecundity ime. Constantly providing iodine and copper mineral rich cattle buckets to my sheep and adding several new young rams has raised my depressed lambing % from 150% to 185% last two years.

 

[DKnD]

We run texel cross ewes on crap grass up to too high and too bloody wet. Get tested for border disease. That plus a new bout of toxo abortion took us from 150-160% down to 120% over several years. You won't do anything right until you know what it is. Testing for border disease antibodies is fairly cheap.

 

[neilo]

Minerals and ram fecundity ime. Constantly providing iodine and copper mineral rich cattle buckets to my sheep and adding several new young rams has raised my depressed lambing % from 150% to 185% last two years.

Unless some of your old rams were jaffas, the increase will only have come from the ewes. The ewes set the numbers of eggs shed, and any fertile ram will easily produce enough sperm (in season) to get well over 100 ewes in lamb. Whether they are active & mobile enough to physically do it is another matter of course, but the sperm is there unless they are sub/infertile.

As a ram seller, I would dearly love to say everyone could increase lamb numbers by increasing ewe/ram ratio, but it's just not true.

Copper supplementation would certainly improve fertility dramatically, if there is a deficiency or lock up. Where there isn't though, it can significantly depress lamb numbers by killing the ewes, particularly continental types. Certainly a risk to give copper to sheep without being able to hazard a guess at mineral status on farm/locally.

 

[milkloss]

We run texel cross ewes on crap grass up to too high and too bloody wet. Get tested for border disease. That plus a new bout of toxo abortion took us from 150-160% down to 120% over several years. You won't do anything right until you know what it is. Testing for border disease antibodies is fairly cheap.

Interesting, having had a quick read I see that border disease is a close relation to bvd in cattle and the species can actually cross infect. Could well be worth looking into especially as you have a beef herd also.

 

[ajcc]

Unless some of your old rams were jaffas, the increase will only have come from the ewes. The ewes set the numbers of eggs shed, and any fertile ram will easily produce enough sperm (in season) to get well over 100 ewes in lamb. Whether they are active & mobile enough to physically do it is another matter of course, but the sperm is there unless they are sub/infertile.

As a ram seller, I would dearly love to say everyone could increase lamb numbers by increasing ewe/ram ratio, but it's just not true.

Copper supplementation would certainly improve fertility dramatically, if there is a deficiency or lock up. Where there isn't though, it can significantly depress lamb numbers by killing the ewes, particularly continental types. Certainly a risk to give copper to sheep without being able to hazard a guess at mineral status on farm/locally.

Well last year, I had three of my neighbours Suffolk ram lambs clamber over a boundary fence for 3 hours and put 30 ewes in lamb 2 months too early......this year I bought 2 of those rams to bolster my resident rams and I have gone for early February lambing instead of late March and they’ve all just scanned at 178% which I am pleased with.
I appreciate copper and sheep can be big no, no, danger! But for me, cow minerals and neighbours new /extra rams have changed 25 years of disappointing sheep returns to a more positive outlook.
I guess like many sheep/cattle farmers tend to not give as much attention to male half of reproduction process....much as we older fellows don’t like to acknowledge young virile rams will make a difference to performance.

 

[Bipper]

Sounds like MV to me.

You need to do some testing though, there are so many possibilities you could spend a fortune trying to solve them without much success.

 

[M-J-G]

I meant both quotes in concert.

I’d rather rent winter grass than feed concentrate. But if it works for you then it works for you.

And risk other people's Johnes, other people's fluke and other people's dog worrying, no thanks.

Plus I can feed sheep cheaper than rent grazing, and they are checked every day in a few minutes, rented grazing means a drive to check them.

 

[Woolless]

As above, any health problems need ruled out or addressed first. Money spent on a good sheep vet's time would be a sound investment. Following on from that, perhaps a reassessment of genetics, system and grassland management would yield results.

 

[Bury the Trash]

We currently run a flock of 500 texel x ewes and 50 head of Limosine x Sucklers.

The cattle are doing really well throughing plenty of good calves and all selling for a tidy price at market.

Our sheep however seem to be getting more and more un prolific every year, we scanned last year at 130%. We blood tested some ewes and they have come back deficuemt in Selinium and Iodine, so consequently in October we boluses all ewes.

We also seem to be buying way to many lamb nuts per year, we are growing 10 acres of turnips to try and get the corn bill down though.

I feel like we're doing a crap job of thd sheep and would appreciate any advice? Any suggestions?

Thanks,

Andy

What rams do you use, aamoi, the flock getting too 'texel ly' wouldnt help vigour .

And abortion bugs could've affected the flock from the past .

As said above

 

[M-J-G]

Grass only grows for 6 months here, it's not all beer and skittles down south!

I didn't suggest it was, but with all else the same south is milder than North so grows for longer.

 

[Agrivator]

The above sums it up for me.

The judicious use of concentrates or biodegradable dietary protein, as Supplements, can produce a very significant increase in animal health and the efficiency with which forage is used.

The classic examples area:

Compensating for annual variations in roughage quality and quantity.

Weaned calves on poor grass or high silage or haylage diets.

Ewes or lean cows in late pregnancy where lack of energy can have serious welfare issues.

Increased risk of swayback in lambs where no concentrates are fed.

Store lambs on winter grass show a marked response to even small amounts of supplementation.

The improvement in appearance (wool and facial hair quality etc ) of breeding sheep offered for sale.

Anyone who advocates a blanket ban on supplementary concentrates or has a rigid ''pasture for life'' mentality, doesn't understand the basic principles of sound animal husbandry. And these are often the folk who have long-tailed shitty-arsed sheep running or hobbling around, and who seem to take little or no pride in the type of stock they produce.