How to stop using insecticides?
- Thread starter DieselRob
- Start date
We don't use any at all , how ? thats Top secret and I wouldn't tell you any way lol.
- Location
- Limousin/Charentes toad land
Aphids are attracted to yellow crops. So having green crops helps. To this end I have quit autumn pre ems too but I don’t have black grass and can do the rest in spring. We did actually have some frosts this year. The two previous years, no frost at all until into December.
And now, a tolerant barley variety
And now, a tolerant barley variety
MikeNeaverson
Member
Aphids very easy to find here in some October 10-15th drilled wheat but not in others. Many are producing second generation wingless like this one. Second wheats are generally worst but not exclusively so. I've never seen so many spiders and webs as this year but the beneficials unfortunately don't seem to be keeping on top in this mild autumn. Most of these fields haven't seen an insecticide since 2018.
yellow belly
Member
- Location
- south west lincolnshire
Where in the uk
looks well cultivated
MikeNeaverson
Member
South Lincs, this is after spuds. Direct drilled no different in general (I walk a few hundred ha of both)
Plenty of winged aphids here not far from you. Nothing emerged before 3rd week Oct. Haven’t checked DD model yet but disinclined to spray unless we have a very mild fortnight. Very few insecticides used on this farm but have had economic losses from bydv in winter barley in the past. To the OP took on some land that had basically been farmed organically, thought ideal I will carry on with no insecticides. However second year and sugar beet was inundated by aphids
yellow belly
Member
- Location
- south west lincolnshire
it is not the winged ones that are the problem it is their ofspring if it is still warm and they are still arriving next week this weeks spray will not have controlled them but the spray will have reduced the beneficialsPlenty of winged aphids here not far from you. Nothing emerged before 3rd week Oct. Haven’t checked DD model yet but disinclined to spray unless we have a very mild fortnight. Very few insecticides used on this farm but have had economic losses from bydv in winter barley in the past. To the OP took on some land that had basically been farmed organically, thought ideal I will carry on with no insecticides. However second year and sugar beet was inundated by aphids
When they did the trials work in the 80s 90s they found that for later emergence waiting till the spring to spray gave the same benefit to late autumn spray unless the winter killed them which was just as effective
if aphids have only just arrived wait till the spring if they are still in the crop spray then if we get a cold frosty week then they will not need to be sprayed
Huntstreet
Member
How did your wheat do in the end without using insecticides or did you spray in the end?
I'm in a similar position as you were last year. Recommendations have just come in to spray for BYDV. I haven't used loads of inceticdes in the past and thinking of cutting them out altogether.
Some of my first wheat was up by 29 September and the majority up in mid / late October. Last bit I drilled still isn't up. I have a recommendation to spray the lot! Seems mad to spray it all. The Syngenta BYDV app suggested I should have sprayed my early drilled wheat on the 22 October (if aphids are present) Well I've missed that, I didn't have the app or a recommdafion from the agronomist at that point. Now it's turned a lot colder and we've had a lot of rain.
- Location
- North Yorkshire
I tore up the rec’s basically. Bit of a leap of faith but decided it was needed as the first step. Didn’t have any damage in the end… other than drought damage but can’t blame aphids for that unfortunately.
Huntstreet
Member
That's good to hear!
we never made a decision to stop using, there was no leap of faith here or even intention really
we just started only using when we had a actual problem we could see and not in a preventative way
we seemed to gradually have less and less need over the next few years and then one day i realised we hadn’t used any for a couple of years …….. which is now 12 years ago !
i won’t claim we NEVER have any problems or even loose a bit of yield on occasions but the benefits far outweigh those rare occasions
predators build and healthy soil grows healthier plants that resist attack better - Brix testing is useful measure of plant health imo and low brix is used by vineyards to decide when to spray insecticides - Brix is lowered by use of herbicides btw so may consider timing carefully ………..
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Huntstreet
Member
Thanks Clive. How would you make a call in the autumn to spay for aphids back in the day before moving away from insecticides?
i simply would not spray unless I actually had crops under attack
i have seen very little evidence of BYDV here since
this is MY experience however higher risk location maybe a different matter
yellow belly
Member
- Location
- south west lincolnshire
This year aphid were not numerous in the summer too dry
aphids need some rain to give good sap flows
imho July was too dry for them also lots of ladybirds
crops after non grass breaks emerging in october need aphids to fly in to have aphids in the crop
then they need to breed
but to get bydv they need to be infected
not seen the infectivity percentage for this year but it is often less than 30%
also the aphid need to survive the onslaught of predictors
but also the weather cold and wet this kast 2 weeks will also reduce them
in the 1990s for october emerged crops the aphids could be controlled from November to March giving the same response but in a winter with enough frost spraying was not needed
a lot of wheat gets planted after mid october so emerges in early November the risk of bydv is very low to non existent
my wheat planted in September emerged in October is higher risk but on no till at 400 ft
we have high numbers of predictors no inscecticide for 30 years on cereals 10 years for beans
but most of all not seen bydv
when we get sunny warm days will be looking especially in the early established cover crops and the first emerged wheat
imho if I find aphids we have till March to do something if aphids survive the winter
aphids need some rain to give good sap flows
imho July was too dry for them also lots of ladybirds
crops after non grass breaks emerging in october need aphids to fly in to have aphids in the crop
then they need to breed
but to get bydv they need to be infected
not seen the infectivity percentage for this year but it is often less than 30%
also the aphid need to survive the onslaught of predictors
but also the weather cold and wet this kast 2 weeks will also reduce them
in the 1990s for october emerged crops the aphids could be controlled from November to March giving the same response but in a winter with enough frost spraying was not needed
a lot of wheat gets planted after mid october so emerges in early November the risk of bydv is very low to non existent
my wheat planted in September emerged in October is higher risk but on no till at 400 ft
we have high numbers of predictors no inscecticide for 30 years on cereals 10 years for beans
but most of all not seen bydv
when we get sunny warm days will be looking especially in the early established cover crops and the first emerged wheat
imho if I find aphids we have till March to do something if aphids survive the winter
yellow belly
Member
- Location
- south west lincolnshire
On a lot of the cereal land when it was first ploughed out of grass in the middle of the last century it was sprayed with very effective insecticides that killed everything very Effectively
benificials take a number of years to build back up if no insecticide is used so there was no chance of recovery
once these were banned the effectiveness of the insecticide left reduced with constant use
but benificials still take time to build up intensive cultivation weather and a rotation of crops without grass
Weather later Drilling and rotation and no insecticide All help to get off the tread mill
nb if I farmed in the south or south west the risk is higher but later drilling is possible
the rewards when you get it right
Lots of inspects grey partridge ect are not all monetary but good for your well-being
benificials take a number of years to build back up if no insecticide is used so there was no chance of recovery
once these were banned the effectiveness of the insecticide left reduced with constant use
but benificials still take time to build up intensive cultivation weather and a rotation of crops without grass
Weather later Drilling and rotation and no insecticide All help to get off the tread mill
nb if I farmed in the south or south west the risk is higher but later drilling is possible
the rewards when you get it right
Lots of inspects grey partridge ect are not all monetary but good for your well-being
farmerm
Member
- Location
- Shropshire
I have seen BYDV in years went we have put on an insecticide in the Autumn and none in other years when we haven't.. "ah well they must have come in during the mild spell in November/December/January"... I am becoming more and more convinced that we would be as well to pee in the sprayer as pour in the recommended insecticide for autumn aphids in cereals, flea beetle in rape or weevil or bruchid beetle in spring beans.. but its cheap says the agronomist...
and probably cheaper to leave it out says I... 