HSE inspections

[Phil P]

Neighbours had one of these: a Public F/P through a cattle yard. They applied for a diversion and ramblists blocked it.
Roll forward to Parish walk time, and the yard was a foot deep in s**t. Farmer's wife lurked to see what would happen and sure enough, the leader of the walkers (and their dogs) voted to divert around the yard.

"Oh no you don't" said Mrs. Farmer as she popped her head above a wall. "You will keep to the designated path - the one you insisted we couldn't divert to avoid you getting dirty feet".

The path is now diverted.

The stupid thing is if someone had fallen in the yard due to muck and the Farmer new about it and could have cleaned it up, he’d be liable! It’s just crazy

 

[Y Fan Wen]

Next door has a fp through his sheep folds. The council provided notices to put on each of the fold gates requesting that walkers keep all gates shut. I think there are 4 gates in 10 yards. He had to use swing gates instead of the sliders one would normally use in these situations.

 

[nick...]

Neighbor as 2foot paths on about 2 acres of meadow where her few cattle graze.one entrance and exit on one side then it goes of to other side on one foot path and the top to another.triangle if you like.regularly get people not shutting gates,having dogs sh!t everywhere and not clearing up and dogs chasing cattle.i really feel for her but some people are just a pain in the arse.must say these are in the minority though.got another customer whose barn conversion I been working on has a footpath running for 300 yards on his boundary.he left the required width and fenced the lot which cost him a bit but no more trouble with walkers and dogs going where they want and stopped the dobbin brigade too
Nick...

 

[Feldspar]

I don't know about all this 'I've been doing this for 80 years/since you were a lad' stuff. The older population have disproportionally more accidents in agriculture than anyone else and experience can lead to complacency.

HSE officers in my experience are quite reasonable, but its the advisers and HSE staff in companies that gold plate the rules and come up with a lot of the bullpoo.

I'm doing my annual H&S effort at the moment. Spent last week reading about all the different fatalities from the last five years. Very much isn't the case that the young guns are getting killed because they are too inexperienced. If anything, as you say, there are a lot of people over 60 that are involved in the fatal accidents. No doubt most of them said, "Well, I've never been killed before doing this, so I must know what I'm doing."

As you look at the way people work in other industries, they have such a different culture towards this sort of thing, and I think they're the ones getting it right. It's obvious to say the in 99.99% of the time the 'onerous' H&S measures that take that bit of extra time and cost will be useless, but it's the 1 in 10,000th time that it stops you getting killed. That said, having spent a good few days on this topic, and having bought quite a bit of extra things that are purely to make the job safer, H&S does cost a business time and money, but I think it's well worth it.

 

[primmiemoo]

The taxpayer funds a very expensive foot bridge.

Tragically, the very expensive public funded bridge won't necessarily be built near the footpath if the following is to go by:

Recent death by collision from a vehicle of a pedestrian using the footpath and crossing the busy A39 near Barnstaple that cuts through it.

Not a single sign warning motorists about the footpath and pedestrians crossing!!

There is a cycle bridge over the road 100 yards away that can't be used because it isn't properly connected into anything yet.

It's astonishing the number of unsigned footpaths that are cut through by main roads seemingly condoned by the Ramblers, yet they choose to pick on and demonise farmers

 

[Forever Fendt]

Tragically, the very expensive public funded bridge won't necessarily be built near the footpath if the following is to go by:

Recent death by collision from a vehicle of a pedestrian using the footpath and crossing the busy A39 near Barnstaple that cuts through it.

Not a single sign warning motorists about the footpath and pedestrians crossing!!

There is a cycle bridge over the road 100 yards away that can't be used because it isn't properly connected into anything yet.

It's astonishing the number of unsigned footpaths that are cut through by main roads seemingly condoned by the Ramblers, yet they choose to pick on and demonise farmers

There is cottage a couple of miles away that has been extended and the path that run next to the cottage has not been moved so now the footpath is under a archway in the house,On the same road a few years ago the council spent i think £20 k building a ramp and steps tp a footpath that is a dead end due to a railway line citing through it in the past

 

[Forever Fendt]

A before and after picture when some arse holes had found a footpath on a map that goes into a field and nowhere else,The road had traffic lights for about 4 weeks for the work to get done,The council are cutting back on all services including shutting down care homes then pee the cash away on stuff like this

 

[primmiemoo]

Y'couldn't make it up - they must be mad

 

[Raider112]

I must confess that I don't understand the attitude around quad helmets, especially given how cool a severe brain injury is, especially those that will have to look after you.

Not being flippant here on a serious subject but I seem to remember reading that helmets on a quad can be counter productive due to the type of terrain or something, a much larger risk of neck injuries.

 

[Agrispeed]

Not being flippant here on a serious subject but I seem to remember reading that helmets on a quad can be counter productive due to the type of terrain or something, a much larger risk of neck injuries.

I'm not sure about helmets, but certainly ROPS is supposed to increase the risk in a roll over.

 

[Feldspar]

I'm not sure about helmets, but certainly ROPS is supposed to increase the risk in a roll over.

That's what the HSE guidance note on quad bikes says. This looks to get round these problems, but it's not without cost: https://www.atvlifeguard.co.uk/

 

[Davy_g]

Rotating equipment & guards, Working at height, lifting equipment & LOLER, confined space entry, lone working, chemical storage and use etc etc. All the things we do every day that in any other industry are controlled.

 

[topground]

Was in conversation with a director of a major demolition cmpany about health and safety enforcement some time ago. They are grateful for the efforts HSE have made in weeding out the cowboys in the demolition game who were undercutting their prices by ignoring training and proper equipment standards. They are now able to fund their H&S investment because their competition also has to include this element in their overheads which are passed on to the customer and so still leave a profit.
One of the problems with agriculture being price takers is that ability to pass on additional costs added on by legislative requirements is not available in the way it is to other industries.

 

[Davy_g]

Be under no illusion, the HSE are there to ensure we can not only comply but demonstrate we can comply with UK safety law. They do not care one jot if we make money or not.

 

[kiwi pom]

Was in conversation with a director of a major demolition cmpany about health and safety enforcement some time ago. They are grateful for the efforts HSE have made in weeding out the cowboys in the demolition game who were undercutting their prices by ignoring training and proper equipment standards. They are now able to fund their H&S investment because their competition also has to include this element in their overheads which are passed on to the customer and so still leave a profit.
One of the problems with agriculture being price takers is that ability to pass on additional costs added on by legislative requirements is not available in the way it is to other industries.

I agree with what the Demolition company says but not with your conclusion. Everybody still in the Demolition business now, in theory, competes on a level playing field, the 'cowboys' either comply OR go out of business because they cant afford to. That doesn't mean they can pass all the costs on because they are still in competition with each other. An efficient business can still put in a cheaper quote even though they have H&S costs or decide they don't need a big margin on that job. All businesses that have competition are price takers to some degree.
There are farming businesses today that spend thousands on H&S in a bid to do things right. They still have to compete with places that completely ignore it. You don't get more for your produce by being H&S compliant.
All farms should have to comply then those that can't or wont are forced out, those that survive are THEN on a level playing field.
Compliant farms should be glad the HSE are weeding out the non compliers, just as your demolition friend was.

 

[Old McDonald]

I don't know about all this 'I've been doing this for 80 years/since you were a lad' stuff. The older population have disproportionally more accidents in agriculture than anyone else and experience can lead to complacency.

Absolutely and totally agree. Coming up to 75 I have enough sense left to know that I am not as fit as I once was. A bad fall slipping on a wet street in Glossop the day before Christmas Eve 2017 eventually led me to decide I need to retire because I am not recovering from the injuries. Consequently I have advertised the farm for sale and intend to spend my days pottering around a garden and doing some easy shore/harbour/jetty fishing in the Azores before I shuffle off back to Scotland to die.

Three years ago I stopped using chainsaws. My knees are liable to give way and face first into a chainsaw blade cannot be good for the complexion. I have not climbed a ladder for at least five years. I no longer attempt to heft hundredweight bags or anything else weighing that much. I do not climb on roofs. I always wear hearing protectors when using the tractors for anything other than as a mobility scooter. I spray a lot (essential here) and wear the required gear. I think safety first - always have done and aim to be the oldest man alive. I might fail, but that is my aim.

 

[D14]

Had them round late last year. All gung ho initially and I suspect we had been reported by a disgruntled local who we know who it is. Anyway when they realised we had no full time employees they lost interest. We've got a basket for the loader, virtually no PTO equipment and no quad bike they lost interest even more and the meeting was over within 45 minutes and a cup of coffee. They admitted that they had scheduled 5 hours for our visit so it turned out alright in the end.

 

[betweenthelines]

Was in conversation with a director of a major demolition cmpany about health and safety enforcement some time ago. They are grateful for the efforts HSE have made in weeding out the cowboys in the demolition game who were undercutting their prices by ignoring training and proper equipment standards. They are now able to fund their H&S investment because their competition also has to include this element in their overheads which are passed on to the customer and so still leave a profit.
One of the problems with agriculture being price takers is that ability to pass on additional costs added on by legislative requirements is not available in the way it is to other industries.

Yet another example of "farmers talking rubbish oh H&S"

The biggest driver of better H&S is promoting a "work safely" mindset. Talk to staff about why and how to work in a safe manner, don't use damaged kit, tell people when and why they are doing something they shouldn't. You might pay a few hundred quid for safety signs, lockable chemical stores etc. but you are wasting that money if you don't promote a safety culture.

Even if you spend £500 on signs etc. that's less than it'll cost you if someone needs a couple of days off after a minor accident like a sprained ankle.

 

[Case856xl]

I don’t post very often, but this thread has gotten me mad... the attitude of some on here is the main reason we are seen as a menance to the public. Calling the HSE a dick is just plain rude. He or she is doing their job just like you. They are offering advice in the idea that they never have to arrive at your farm to photograph your decapitated head or broken body. Your opening line about having “better things to do with your time” pretty much sum you up.
Gladly I am witnessing a change in attitude I’m our industry. It appears to be coming from the younger members.... some of whom are or have seen their more experienced older family members killed... sad sad times

 

[topground]

Yet another example of "farmers talking rubbish oh H&S"

The biggest driver of better H&S is promoting a "work safely" mindset. Talk to staff about why and how to work in a safe manner, don't use damaged kit, tell people when and why they are doing something they shouldn't. You might pay a few hundred quid for safety signs, lockable chemical stores etc. but you are wasting that money if you don't promote a safety culture.

Even if you spend £500 on signs etc. that's less than it'll cost you if someone needs a couple of days off after a minor accident like a sprained ankle.

Which bit is rubbish, the information from the Director of a major player in the demolition business or the bit that farmers are price takers and therefore cannot pass on their costs to the customer?