HSE inspections

[BillieBox]

If you are storing chemical, then you might want to make sure your chemical store is up to spec.
Here is a link to the HSE criteria: http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/ais16.pdf

Good luck with your inspection.

 

[manhill]

Be under no illusion, the HSE are there to ensure we can not only comply but demonstrate we can comply with UK safety law. They do not care one jot if we make money or not.

Well they should. They should also understand 'reasonably practicable'. No point removing all risk otherwise there would be no business either.

 

[betweenthelines]

Which bit is rubbish, the information from the Director of a major player in the demolition business or the bit that farmers are price takers and therefore cannot pass on their costs to the customer?

The rubbish is the constant griping by some sectors of farming that they "can't afford" H &S

 

[TheTallGuy]

Well they should. They should also understand 'reasonably practicable'. No point removing all risk otherwise there would be no business either.

The question is though what constitutes 'reasonably practicable' - it's a very subjective term & everyone else's' view is likely to be different to your own. The test I use is consider what a jury consisting of ordinary folk who know nothing about farming, or whatever it is I am doing, would say if something went wrong.

 

[TrickyT]

I work in HS&E for a utility company, nothing associated with farming.

It is funny how different people react when I tell them what I do. the most obvious is 'where's your hard hat' or 'health and safety stopped me doing everything'.

I won't get drawn into any specifics, but just leave you with these statistics from the HS&E.

There were 29 fatalities in Agriculture in 2017/18, with Construction having the highest with 38. The largest area for fatalities in 2017/18 was falls from height - 35.

In 2017/18 there were 8.44 fatalities per 100,000 workers in Agriculture, only surpassed by 10.26 in Waste and Recycling with Construction back at 1.67.

From 2013/14 to 2017/18 the annual average was 8.20 fatalities per 100,00 workers in Agriculture, Waste and Recycling were only 7.22 and Construction 1.77.

To put it into perspective the All Industry rate for 2017/18 was 0.45 fatalities per 100,000 workers. ​

Another perspective is that you are 5 times more likely to be killed in Agriculture than in Construction.

Regards

Trevor

 

[Agrispeed]

Not only are the statistics quite shocking, but a lot of the deaths and serious injuries in agriculture are easily avoided, or a result of damaged/poorly maintained equipment, which is easily avoided, and I suspect why HSE is getting quite keen.

There was a brilliant bloke called James Chapman who does safety talks after loosing his arm in a PTO accident. His response to those who claim safety is too expensive is quite obvious, but makes you think.

I think I'd rather go bust than explain to someone's mother that they won't be coming home because a PTO guard was too expensive.


With things such as not wearing Hi-vis around cattle (perfectly reasonable) is that HSE should accept that, provided that you can show that you considered the risk, how to avoid it and why it wasn't appropriate. Write it down!

 

[7610 super q]

Yes well, falls from height...... What other industry would get involved in trying to repair their own buildings ? And why ? Cos every penny counts, that's why. Might as well accept agriculture is to go the same way as coal mining, ship building, car manufacturing...etc, etc. and be done with it, if you want to try and bring farming into the 21st century. Can't have it both ways.

 

[Robt]

Sorry @7610 super q but that is not right. Some very big and very small farms all making good money... Keep ontop of H&S and the cost is low. Ignore it at your peril

 

[7610 super q]

Sorry @7610 super q but that is not right. Some very big and very small farms all making good money... Keep ontop of H&S and the cost is low. Ignore it at your peril

I doubt they're making " good money " at 1970's prices. If you want to understand the high fatality rate in agriculture, you have to understand the causes. If a builder presents you with a quote for £1k to replace a skylight, the temptation is there to do it yourself. This would not happen in other industries. There has to be a reason. I really don't think it's a gung - ho attitude, we've all seen and heard gruesome stories, and had health and safety drummed into us from a young age. And just turning up to " rubbish " peoples posts ( not aimed at you ) is as much help as a chocolate teapot.

 

[kiwi pom]

Which bit is rubbish, the information from the Director of a major player in the demolition business or the bit that farmers are price takers and therefore cannot pass on their costs to the customer?

The bit where you suggest farmers are different from other businesses because they can directly pass the cost on is rubbish. Any business that sells something has to be competitive and cant always just pass the cost on.
How are the compliant farms staying in business, they're not passing it on?

 

[kiwi pom]

Yes well, falls from height...... What other industry would get involved in trying to repair their own buildings ? And why ? Cos every penny counts, that's why. Might as well accept agriculture is to go the same way as coal mining, ship building, car manufacturing...etc, etc. and be done with it, if you want to try and bring farming into the 21st century. Can't have it both ways.

I'm not sure how it works, does the HSE treat you differently if you're a business owner climbing his own ladder to fix a skylight, compared to a farmer/employer that sends their staff up there to do it?
Its been suggested on here they are not as keen around owner operators.

 

[7610 super q]

I'm not sure how it works, does the HSE treat you differently if you're a business owner climbing his own ladder to fix a skylight, compared to a farmer/employer that sends their staff up there to do it?
Its been suggested on here they are not as keen around owner operators.

Dunno. I just can't see the CEO of BMW climbing onto a roof to fix a skylight at the factory. Yet farmers do. Why is this ?

 

[Robt]

because the CEO of BMW has an understanding of how much his time is worth...... its hardly a fair comparison is it? its the same as saying, does the CEO of Beeswax farming climb a ladder to fix a light...no!

 

[7610 super q]

because the CEO of BMW has an understanding of how much his time is worth...... its hardly a fair comparison is it? its the same as saying, does the CEO of Beeswax farming climb a ladder to fix a light...no!

Hmmm...... I don't think some quite understand the nature of small family farms. The CEO of Beeswax ( Dyson I presume ) has a blank cheque to spend on this , that , and t'other. ( Didn't he make a tremendous loss last year ?, but I digress....)
If it's a choice between nipping up onto a roof, and boshing down a £20 sheet, and saving £980 for a humoungous TV, or some such, you can see the temptation can't you ?
Not saying it's right, just saying why it might happen, that's all.

 

[Kidds]

I doubt they're making " good money " at 1970's prices. If you want to understand the high fatality rate in agriculture, you have to understand the causes. If a builder presents you with a quote for £1k to replace a skylight, the temptation is there to do it yourself. This would not happen in other industries. There has to be a reason. I really don't think it's a gung - ho attitude, we've all seen and heard gruesome stories, and had health and safety drummed into us from a young age. And just turning up to " rubbish " peoples posts ( not aimed at you ) is as much help as a chocolate teapot.

I agree with most of what you say but I actually do think a lot is down to gung-ho attitude. A farmer is quite capable of climbing onto a roof and fixing his own skylight quite safely if he takes the right precautions. The accidents happen when he's running around on an asbestos roof in the wet, with his wellies covered in mud and not using a cat ladder.
Allowing kiddies to drive, ride on or runaround in the yard with the tractors. Riding on trailer drawbars, working on machinery with the pto going etc etc. All these things still lead to accidents even now and I have witnessed all the above and many more. Farmers can be downright lunatics when health and safety is concerned, it makes me cringe.

 

[7610 super q]

I agree with most of what you say but I actually do think a lot is down to gung-ho attitude. A farmer is quite capable of climbing onto a roof and fixing his own skylight quite safely if he takes the right precautions. The accidents happen when he's running around on an asbestos roof in the wet, with his wellies covered in mud and not using a cat ladder.
Allowing kiddies to drive, ride on or runaround in the yard with the tractors. Riding on trailer drawbars, working on machinery with the pto going etc etc. All these things still lead to accidents even now and I have witnessed all the above and many more. Farmers can be downright lunatics when health and safety is concerned, it makes me cringe.

Can't say I've seen too much lunacy TBH. Maybe it's because I don't get out much...
Seeing 20T trailers travelling at 40k + makes me cringe. And I see the odd add for machinery on FB with no guards, which is just plain daft. The biggest danger I see is rushing to beat the weather. Another phenomenon peculiar to agriculture.........
I don't see BMW rushing out a batch of cars to beat the next Atlantic front..

 

[Robt]

Hmmm...... I don't think some quite understand the nature of small family farms. The CEO of Beeswax ( Dyson I presume ) has a blank cheque to spend on this , that , and t'other. ( Didn't he make a tremendous loss last year ?, but I digress....)
If it's a choice between nipping up onto a roof, and boshing down a £20 sheet, and saving £980 for a humoungous TV, or some such, you can see the temptation can't you ?
Not saying it's right, just saying why it might happen, that's all.

I agree @7610 super q but you said the CEO of BMW.. I was just quoting you...

 

[Grass And Grain]

Like it or not, i think there is a correlation between profitability and health and safety standards.

Replacing a damaged pto guard is easy and relatively cheap to fix, and should be done.

IMO where safety can get compromised on farm is due to us all rushing about. Lack of profitability has led to less labour employed and those of us who are left having to work longer hours at busy times.

I've got two friends who have hit telegraph poles with machinery in recent years. Both during harvest, after they had worked silly hours for too many days.

 

[Kidds]

Can't say I've seen too much lunacy TBH. Maybe it's because I don't get out much...

My own family are enough, I don't need to get out much to see lunacy in farming.
You mention FB adverts with guards missing, go on Youtube and look at machinery demos. The manufacturers are demoing their machinery without all the guards in place. Pto cowls at the tractor end are often missing, I saw a sprayer advert recently with the operator riding around with the sun roof open (on a mist blower orchard sprayer setup). Many open days, industry shows etc will see people riding around on the mudguard of a tractor, hanging out of the open door etc etc. This is what causes accidents or at least this attitude is what causes them imo.
There's plenty of vids on here with kids riding around in tractors and plenty of folk arguing that it is safer that way because they know where they are.
I'm not trying to have a go at anyone on here, I am genuinely concerned for peoples safety and hate seeing such things.

 

[kiwi pom]

Dunno. I just can't see the CEO of BMW climbing onto a roof to fix a skylight at the factory. Yet farmers do. Why is this ?

No he wouldn't, he wouldn't send an employee up there on an old knackered ladder either though, he'd never get away with it.
Its not right, because one life's worth the same as another but I don't have as much of a problem with a farmer taking huge risks on their own property. I think what agency's like the HSE have done is made it much harder for employers to send some other poor bugger to do a risky job without the proper equipment and training.
The stats seem to back this up as many of the current deaths seem to be 'self employed farmers' as opposed to farm workers, not saying that's a good thing though, every ones a tragedy.