HSE problem

[mountfarm]

Here’s one for you all to watch out for. Our neighbour had a HSE routine inspection last week. They went through all the paperwork initially without issues, then had a walk around the farm checking machinery guards, fuel storage, fertiliser storage etc and everything was fine until they walked past the farm machinery scrapyard where they’d got an old mower, Howard muck spreader and an old Hardi mounted sprayer. None of these items have been used for 10 years or more. Things like pto guards had been robbed off them amongst other things. The HSE wouldn’t accept the items were not used and pretty much scrap so have enforced the farm to get the items safe to use.
anybody else had a similar experience because it seems very unfair and is forcing them to either scrap them or sort them out.

 

[I still farm]

Surely they'll receive a prohibition notice for said machines, if they are used without proper guards they'll be in trouble. If not, they'll sit there rusting away, HSE are covered and your neighbour is ok .

 

[deleted user 837354]

Cant they just cut/take shafts off?

 

[Bald Rick]

A cynic might think that the inspector wanted to justify his visit having failed on stuff he would most likely have found on other farms .....

 

[Cowabunga]

They are now self financing and therefore prone to financial pressure and therefore corruption in one way or another. I wonder what would have happened if you had bunged him a £50 note or two?

Basically what I am saying is that they now hold people to ransom and have a propensity to be crooked as illustrated above. Social media is your friend in this regard. Shout out their crookedness from the rooftops. Publicise it to anyone who will listen. The media love this kind of stuff to fill their pages.

 

[Formatted]

Before the mob appears this isn't how the HSE work. They will provide the business with an improvement notice, which requires you to complete an action as described in the notice in a given period of time generally 7-14 days. You can get a more serious prohibition notice, which makes it an offense to use that item and you are given sometime to rectify it before a reinspection but it cannot be used until the issue has been rectified.

For example, this might be something small like a faulty fan on a fume hood in a chemical lab or in an office setting a building that has a significant defect.

More info - http://www.hse.gov.uk/foi/internalops/ocs/100-199/130_14.htm

You wouldn't expect a factory to have 10-year-old equipment, that is unsafe if used to be accessible by staff, likewise, why should a farm?

 

[7610 super q]

Interesting. I've an old sprayer, and drum mower in the shed, awaiting repair / robbing parts / scrapping. I have paper work to prove I have had a contractor do my mowing/ spraying for the last few years, would this suffice ?

Please stop comparing farming to other industries. Other industries don't sell their wares for 1970's prices.

 

[Dr. Alkathene]

Anything like that wants putting on a flatbed / bale trailer and temporarily parking behind a high hedge out of eyesight.....

 

[deleted user 837354]

Anything like that wants putting on a flatbed / bale trailer and temporarily parking behind a high hedge out of eyesight.....

Mind if we park it in your yard for a few days instead....

 

[Cowcalf]

what are the variations where no staff are employed ?

 

[milkloss]

what are the variations where no staff are employed ?

None if you have anyone other than yourself working on the farm for eg contractors etc. They said that if you were incapacitated for whatever reason someone else maybe using your machinery even only for a short while.

 

[TheTallGuy]

Simple solution is for redundant equipment to be "secured out of use" - usual approach is chain & lock applied such that the equipment cannot be hitched up/used, the keys should be locked away to avoid accidental/easy access. There should also be a tag attached (usually on the padlock) with "equipment not to be used" on it - if that isn't enough to satisfy an inspector ask them to provide copies of the relevant HSE guidance to back up their stance.

 

[milkloss]

Cant they just cut/take shafts off?

Possibly. Probably better to cut the drawbar off as well to be honest, they’re not stupid and best not to treat them so.

Not a good idea to put the prop shafts in the workshop and say “they’re awaiting repair” as they’ll expect proof it’s been done!

 

[betweenthelines]

Interesting. I've an old sprayer, and drum mower in the shed, awaiting repair / robbing parts / scrapping. I have paper work to prove I have had a contractor do my mowing/ spraying for the last few years, would this suffice ?

Please stop comparing farming to other industries. Other industries don't sell their wares for 1970's prices.

So if someone gets maimed or killed due to your negligence, it doesnt count? Why do farmers assume that the very idea of being aware of safety issues is expensive? 90% of accidents are due to a lack of forethought. For redundant machinery would it be such a pain to spend a rainy day breaking a couple of redundant machines into their component parts. Save you time when you need a PTO shaft etc. in a hurry, and you can sell the scrap seeing as you are so poor!

 

[betweenthelines]

This thread should be renamed "Why are Farmers so stupid about looking after themselves and others?" I dread to think what state the OPs yard would be in if he was not subject to regular inspections.

 

[milkloss]

This thread should be renamed "Why are Farmers so stupid about looking after themselves and others?" I dread to think what state the OPs yard would be in if he was not subject to regular inspections.

Did you twist a bollock today or something?

 

[7610 super q]

So if someone gets maimed or killed due to your negligence, it doesnt count? Why do farmers assume that the very idea of being aware of safety issues is expensive? 90% of accidents are due to a lack of forethought. For redundant machinery would it be such a pain to spend a rainy day breaking a couple of redundant machines into their component parts. Save you time when you need a PTO shaft etc. in a hurry, and you can sell the scrap seeing as you are so poor!

Kinda already there with the sprayer. Filters & pipework used as for rain water harvesting, pump knackered and removed, PTO shaft removed. Would this satisfy HSE ? What harm is a plastic tank and boom locked in a shed going to do anyone ?
This is the trouble with these threads, they become self righteous twit magnets.

 

[deleted user 837354]

The pile of scrap on some farms would cover a few acres and be more hazardous attempting to move it than leave it alone.

 

[kiwi pom]

Here’s one for you all to watch out for. Our neighbour had a HSE routine inspection last week. They went through all the paperwork initially without issues, then had a walk around the farm checking machinery guards, fuel storage, fertiliser storage etc and everything was fine until they walked past the farm machinery scrapyard where they’d got an old mower, Howard muck spreader and an old Hardi mounted sprayer. None of these items have been used for 10 years or more. Things like pto guards had been robbed off them amongst other things. The HSE wouldn’t accept the items were not used and pretty much scrap so have enforced the farm to get the items safe to use.
anybody else had a similar experience because it seems very unfair and is forcing them to either scrap them or sort them out.

Should be fairly easy to make the machines unusable. Take pto shafts off remove mounting pins etc. Any more trouble and your neighbour should ask the inspector to back up their claim with some actual paperwork.

From another perspective I wonder how many times inspectors have found a load of old dangerous kit and been told "oh that's just the scrap pile" when in fact its just stuff that's not used very often?
As always there's two sides to everything, would it be obvious it was a scrap pile from a photo?

 

[kiwi pom]

Please stop comparing farming to other industries. Other industries don't sell their wares for 1970's prices.

Good point but there are farms that spend considerable time, effort and money on safety for themselves and staff. They don't get any more for their wares than someone who does nothing, so not really fair is it?
No different than cowboy builders stealing work off construction companies that do it right.

I do think H&S goes way too far at times and should be challenged when it does.