Hunting.....what's the point?

[Devil's advocate]

As a non meat eater of over 30 years, I think your views are completely unrealistic.
Animals and the manure they produce are part of the life cycle of the land and when you talk about organic its very difficult to grow healthy crops without healthy soil. Organic matter in volume not only provide nutrients but retains water.
So how are you going to produce organic, as per the soil association, crops with out the impute of animals?

As to much lower meat consumption, well that train could have well and truly gone. The evidence seems strong that animal fats are not the killer they have been made out to be, and that the excess carbohydrate in our diet that we have been encourage to eat, pasta, rice, bread and the dreaded breakfast cereal is actually causing more problems.
Humans are successful as animals because like the fox we eat just about anything, only unlike foxes we have unlimited access to cheap carbohydrate,and sugar and salt which make it taste good, no matter how poor quality it is, and the big food companies have made full advantage of this. Just look at the crisp, biscuit and cereal isles in any supermarket and the amount spent on advertising selling it. People who have not eaten meat and dairy for years, when they realise their food choices are going to lead to an early death, which could include blindness and losing their limbs, have changed their eating habits
.
We can not go back to the past, there has also been a long history of food adulteration, so the past was not as rosy as BBC costume drama. Like most of life it will be a compromise, having listen to the rabid vegan on Jeremy Vine, unfortunately they have no compromise and seemingly no understanding. I do wonder sometimes what the have not's of the world would think listening to us argue over the choice whether to eat a ham sandwich or not.
I just try and make sure every bit of the food I buy gets eaten and does not end up in the green waste bin.

I'm a mixed farmer. So would like people to buy all my products.

But I think it is always best to stick to the facts & let people make their own minds up (then we are better than vegans).

Warwick farmer is right that the general trend of city types is to eat less meat & more organic. Well the desire to anyway.

There is some truth that a lower consumption of meat (not zero) would have positive effects on health & enviroment.

Organic cropping could be stockless if legume green manures or cover crops are grown & a rotation is practised. Although I personally think it is much more efficent to use pesticides to reduce waste from pests & disease. Organis pesticides have improved a great deal in the last 5 years though such as Tracer & bio fungicides/bacteriacides.

With less livestock fewer cereals need to be grown, so poorer land would not be needed. I don't welcome that but it is true.

I hope sense prevails & the livestock sector does not cut its own throat., By working to high standards of animal welfare & enviromental standards. So then we have a healthy profitable livestock sector supplying a higher valued product from well managed grassland & arable byproducts.

 

[Derrick Hughes]

Dont get trampled in the rush

 

[Dry Rot]

Was it not you who continously complained for months on end about having your guns confiscated by the police, because you threatened some one?

That is the problem in this country, there is a lack of true men, it is full of people who hide behind guns to resolve issues. Rugby players use nothing but their god given strength and give their opponent a fair chance. I have far more respect for them then some thug with a gun.

No, it was me who protested about a neighbour's "planning irregularities". There were no guns involved and mine were safely locked up in an approved cabinet in the house about 150 yards away. That case is still ongoing and I will say no more except that he has since had to reapply for full planning permission that has so far cost him a four figure sum. I see that a change in the law is on the way, possibly prompted by my MP who knos the details, which should make it more difficult for such things to happen in the future.

Just to refresh your memory, I have held an open firearms certificate for over 60 years, never been in trouble with the police, and I got my guns back with an apology. On the other hand, I did lodge four complaints with the Police Investigations and Reviews Commission about the way my case was handled. Three complaints were upheld. The fourth was dismissed. The commission accepted the police excuse that asking me to sign a statement to voluntarily surrender my weapons for destruction, with the explanation that it was "just a receipt", was a mistake with the paperwork. Yes, of course it was!

BTW, whatever happened to Cassius Clay/Mohammed Ali? He was a boxer like you, wasn't he?

 

[M-J-G]

Dont get trampled in the rush View attachment 751818View attachment 751820

You'll have room to lay down after your dinner

 

[honeyend]

not thought about that, what would be an alternative that is quick ?

Alternatives to cereal. I have no sugar yoghurt and seeds, I can almost cook an omelette quicker than it takes to make toast. I have a friend who just eats cooked chicken for breakfast, or boiled eggs.

 

[milkloss]

I have a lot of good friends who are good organic farmers but with due respect I haven't come across one yet who can grow a decent crop of wheat or barley and oats for that matter . But let them try . best have good security for your grain stores . A staving army would take some holding

That’s what the gun(s) is for.

 

[M-J-G]

Alternatives to cereal. I have no sugar yoghurt and seeds, I can almost cook an omelette quicker than it takes to make toast. I have a friend who just eats cooked chicken for breakfast, or boiled eggs.

Plenty of options like you say.
If time is an issue people can just get up 5 min earlier.

 

[honeyend]

Dont get trampled in the rush View attachment 751818View attachment 751820

Most vegetarian/vegan sold pre made is absolute rubbish, usually high in salt and sugar, to make it edible.
If you are eating vegan its even harder as you need a mix of proteins unless you are eating soya based products to get all the amino acids to make complete protein that is found in animal products. The idea that you can just replace meat and dairy with vegetables and beans a is myth, it also means generally that you are eating a diet with hardly any fat and so may be deficient in fat soluble vitamins.
I worry because if you are an adult and choose not to eat certain foods there chances are you will survive with not too much harm but if you are restricting a child's diet there can be serious consequences.For a lot of people eating vegan will the latest fad, they will buy their ready prepared foods with little idea of the nutritional content
http://www.espghancongress.org/file..._17_Vegan_Diets_in_Children_Press_Release.pdf
Just because people think what they are doing is right, it doesn't mean it is.

 

[Fat hen]

Never seen the point in it. Nor can I understand the great passion they hold for hunting foxes. Obv they find it fun. As with bird shoots. We have a bird shoot on our land every other week they get 80 odd birds. They eat what they catch which to me gives it a raison d'etre. Of course you could get a much better bird from the butchers.

 

[Dry Rot]

I had a couple of veggies on a working holiday this summer. Harmless creatures who didn't object at all to my controlling rabbits. I am actually eating a lot more vegetables as a result of the exoperience so it was quite positive.

But I was warned against vegans as it is not just the diet but the requirement for seperate cooking and eating utensils which they won't use if they've been anywhere near meat or animals. So the vegan wanting to bring her two cats was declined. My GSDs were very disappointed.

 

[Princess Pooper]

I had a couple of veggies on a working holiday this summer. Harmless creatures who didn't object at all to my controlling rabbits. I am actually eating a lot more vegetables as a result of the exoperience so it was quite positive.

But I was warned against vegans as it is not just the diet but the requirement for seperate cooking and eating utensils which they won't use if they've been anywhere near meat or animals. So the vegan wanting to bring her two cats was declined. My GSDs were very disappointed.

But by 'owning' cats she is exploiting animals for her own pleasure.

 

[bumkin]

The tossers all had their dogs all over my land even though they are banned...had all my sheep running about and bunching up

they are hounds man hounds!

 

[bumkin]

Being a hunter and justifying it as nothing more than a sport is interesting.

It's a bit like being a predatory paedophile and justifying it as being driven by the thrill of the chase.

It says a lot about the individuals concerned...

ballcocks

 

[Dry Rot]

they are hounds man hounds!

To be pedantic, all hounds are dogs but not all dogs are hounds. Except when they're bitches, of course!

 

[bumkin]

But hunting with dogs is illegal, the hunt is not there to get rid of foxes, they’re only there for a bit of a ride around.

is that so? i have no problem with hunting or any other country pursuit, i think the problem is when snobbery rears its ugly head, i have done all the country pursuits and enjoyed them the people that are the problem are the ones that bring the class war into it the ones that dont understand what its about,but just remember, as farmers we are an endangered species and all country folk should stand together

 

[Tarw Coch]

is that so? i have no problem with hunting or any other country pursuit, i think the problem is when snobbery rears its ugly head, i have done all the country pursuits and enjoyed them the people that are the problem are the ones that bring the class war into it the ones that dont understand what its about,but just remember, as farmers we are an endangered species and all country folk should stand together

Yes I’m sure many of the problems surrounding hunting come from class prejudice.
And I also agree that country folk need to stand together, not that I have anything positive to say about hunting but I do have more in common with the hunters than the antis. However they don’t always make the best of efforts looking after farmers making a mess and causing damage, I realise it’s unfair to tar all with the same brush but as in most things it’s the bad ones that spoil it for everyone.

 

[MRT]

Yes I’m sure many of the problems surrounding hunting come from class prejudice.
And I also agree that country folk need to stand together, not that I have anything positive to say about hunting but I do have more in common with the hunters than the antis. However they don’t always make the best of efforts looking after farmers making a mess and causing damage, I realise it’s unfair to tar all with the same brush but as in most things it’s the bad ones that spoil it for everyone.

I suppose that is the difference (in some cases) between the hunt and the field/followers?

 

[Highland Mule]

I don’t own a horse, don’t ride and have no desire to socialise with those that do. I do have a desire to control fox numbers and prevent them from taking my young stock.

I can’t stand with a bunch of people who ride across land and give fox hunting a bad name, whilst not actually controlling fox numbers. Given what I’ve read in here, I actually object more to it that before, and resent them using the term fox hunting - if they were honest and just said they were free country riders or some such things, I’d have some respect. But with limited intent to actually hunt foxes, is see the current packs as doing little benefit and just giving sensible land and predator management a bad name.

 

[bumkin]

Yes I’m sure many of the problems surrounding hunting come from class prejudice.
And I also agree that country folk need to stand together, not that I have anything positive to say about hunting but I do have more in common with the hunters than the antis. However they don’t always make the best of efforts looking after farmers making a mess and causing damage, I realise it’s unfair to tar all with the same brush but as in most things it’s the bad ones that spoil it for everyone.

i agree with your sentiments entirely, i could quote you a list of rudeness that has come from the country pursuits brigade but the main problem with them is lack of manners and a lack of understanding of the countryside i despair when i hear of the problems with the hunting shooting and fishing brigade most stem from bad manners even when i have been polite to walkers that stray from the foot path they have become aggressive.as a farmer i feel that i offer the publick a lot, free access and free sport but it is not appreciated,

 

[Lazy Sod]

Has nobody an opinion on my question? Namely, if the doge are not supposed to kill foxes, why can't they be muzzled to prevent them from doing so?