Hybrid organic dairy/beef

[Martyn]

Are any members aware/know any farmers who milk a small herd of organic cows and use all the milk to rear large batches of organic calves.

I visited a couple of farms doing this in France in 2006/7 where is was quite common to milk 20/30 cows and feed 60/80 calves, the calves looked super, with a lot being continentals with double muscle. Farms at that point we're taking them through as young bulls.

Just wondering if anyone is doing it in the UK, weaning calves at 15-18 weeks looking similar to suckler calves.

Would think it would be attractive to organic farms to have a buyer wanting calves at 7-14days old so that they can get milk in their tank quicker.

 

[gone up the hill]

Why not just let them multi suck the cows and save all the hassle/work of milking/bucket rearing??

Open the gate let 4 calves in and hey presto the job is done!

 

[Martyn]

Was thinking of looking at one cow rearing 12 calves per lactation of 300 days. Just looking at the figures. A 7500l cow would supply 6l a day for 100days per a calf for 12 calves. Calves starting on 8l and ending on 4l at weaning.

 

[gone up the hill]

Was thinking of looking at one cow rearing 12 calves per lactation of 300 days. Just looking at the figures. A 7500l cow would supply 6l a day for 100days per a calf for 12 calves. Calves starting on 8l and ending on 4l at weaning.

You are making a lot of work just for the sake of it!

Just as well let 4 calves suckle her and then wean them off at either 14 weeks so you can do 12 calves a year per cow or 21 weeks and she rears 8 calves a year.

 

[Tim W]

Are any members aware/know any farmers who milk a small herd of organic cows and use all the milk to rear large batches of organic calves.

I visited a couple of farms doing this in France in 2006/7 where is was quite common to milk 20/30 cows and feed 60/80 calves, the calves looked super, with a lot being continentals with double muscle. Farms at that point we're taking them through as young bulls.

Just wondering if anyone is doing it in the UK, weaning calves at 15-18 weeks looking similar to suckler calves.

Would think it would be attractive to organic farms to have a buyer wanting calves at 7-14days old so that they can get milk in their tank quicker.

I used to multi suckle organic dairy calves ---usually 5/cow/year & that was on top of the downs at 1000ft on rough grazing. With good grass/feed supplements i don't see why you couldn't easily increase that to 8+ calves a year
Our end market was organic veal --- a good system whilst it lasted

 

[Martyn]

I used to multi suckle organic dairy calves ---usually 5/cow/year & that was on top of the downs at 1000ft on rough grazing. With good grass/feed supplements i don't see why you couldn't easily increase that to 8+ calves a year
Our end market was organic veal --- a good system whilst it lasted

Helpfull thanks. Do you do anything with organic beef now?

 

[Whitepeak]

Know someone who milks about half a dozen cows and uses the milk to rear calves. Takes a few through to finished or sells as strong stores. They aren't organic. I don't know anymore about their system though.

 

[som farmer]

from the non organic side, we sold our milkers in 99, and prices were crap, av £350, my foot did some bidding, auctioneers leg hurt ! But ended up still milking a few, 15 ish, and used the milk for calves, l sold following a bad accident, and not being fit, it was very obvious powder was the much easier route, powder was in a different price league then !
Also used to multi suckle dairy cows, it definitely not as straight forward, as it seems, most dairy cows need feeding well, just as milkers do, and it proved very difficult to get them back in calf, if outside, 2 calves. max, at a time, they really hit ex dairy cows about. If we went down that route again, we would let the cows into the calves, for a short time, x2 day. Then, of course, some cows really don't like calves !
We looked at milking a few cows again, when powder had a massive price increase, and that sort of evolved into a return to milking proper ! Son was old enough then, and wanted to.
Having done both systems, suggested, it sounds a lot easier than it actually is, to do it properly and successfully, it is a lot of work, esp buying calves in, from the disease angle as well, probably a lot harder than milking proper.
As for demand, it's definitely there, the standard of either feeding calves to rear, or to take to mkt, is appalling in general, just recently, we had a discussion, about 1 farm, that thought 30/40% mortality, was acceptable. My opinion, is that some farms can rear calves, and some cannot, and usually a time issue.
Perhaps the best way to judge, is how good is your calf rearing now, anything less than good, or more than 5% mortality, don't bother, as soon as calves arrive, from other farms, all problems multiply.

 

[Martyn]

from the non organic side, we sold our milkers in 99, and prices were crap, av £350, my foot did some bidding, auctioneers leg hurt ! But ended up still milking a few, 15 ish, and used the milk for calves, l sold following a bad accident, and not being fit, it was very obvious powder was the much easier route, powder was in a different price league then !
Also used to multi suckle dairy cows, it definitely not as straight forward, as it seems, most dairy cows need feeding well, just as milkers do, and it proved very difficult to get them back in calf, if outside, 2 calves. max, at a time, they really hit ex dairy cows about. If we went down that route again, we would let the cows into the calves, for a short time, x2 day. Then, of course, some cows really don't like calves !
We looked at milking a few cows again, when powder had a massive price increase, and that sort of evolved into a return to milking proper ! Son was old enough then, and wanted to.
Having done both systems, suggested, it sounds a lot easier than it actually is, to do it properly and successfully, it is a lot of work, esp buying calves in, from the disease angle as well, probably a lot harder than milking proper.
As for demand, it's definitely there, the standard of either feeding calves to rear, or to take to mkt, is appalling in general, just recently, we had a discussion, about 1 farm, that thought 30/40% mortality, was acceptable. My opinion, is that some farms can rear calves, and some cannot, and usually a time issue.
Perhaps the best way to judge, is how good is your calf rearing now, anything less than good, or more than 5% mortality, don't bother, as soon as calves arrive, from other farms, all problems multiply.

We have lost calves after 24hours of birth on the last two years, from about 250-300 births, only know as did health plan review recently.

 

[som farmer]

calves dying under 24 hrs, are either 'wrong' at birth, or been stepped on etc, or a rampant disease, which would mean a lot of deaths. Calves can die, from other things, than disease, and you can never stop that. It's how many die, or more importantly, how many don't 'do', that can drag a whole batch down.
Calves are very robust, as seen by sucklers, calving outside, in bad weather. And the same applies inside, calf rearing is easy, if you have the right conditions, which are not difficult, environment, correct feeding, and consistency, it is environment and consistency, that many fail on, environment should be obvious, use a smoke bomb. Consistency, means correct temp of milk, same quantity, and regular times, which is where many fail, just to much to do.
We haven't time, so we pay a lady to do them, 3 or 4 calves 'saved', more than covers her pay.
Just finished our block, no calves tubed, 1 calf, jer x bull, not doing well, and dispatched, and 1 died, no 'bad' doers, out of 75 ish, born alive. Weather been to variable, and we have jabbed, 5.
And we can sell every beef calf, at home, over mkt price, no problem.

 

[gone up the hill]

There certainly is demand for organic stirks/store cattle but you need to enter them into the monthly organic markets most regional markets hold in the SW.

 

[Martyn]

There certainly is demand for organic stirks/store cattle but you need to enter them into the monthly organic markets most regional markets hold in the SW.

I'm getting emails/phone calls asking about what organic stores we have, I have just over a hundred but they are growing away nicely, Def big demand at the moment

 

[Tim W]

Helpfull thanks. Do you do anything with organic beef now?

No
Only help a local guy with his small Devon suckler herd
My organic beef experience is
1) Single suckler ----120 W Black & Hereford (few Shorthorn) finishing all animals off grass
2) Multi suckling Dairy shorthorn cows (old style almost dual purpose cows) to produce organic veal
This was in late '80s early '90s

 

[som farmer]

I'm getting emails/phone calls asking about what organic stores we have, I have just over a hundred but they are growing away nicely, Def big demand at the moment

we are getting calls for our calves now, we are not selling, so much sexed semen been used elsewhere, for us, we will swop stores, for the hfrs we want, which is slightly different to what we rear !
Got some fr bull calves, by barnwood arrival, they really don't stand out from the blues, very impressed.

 

[Sid]

I'm getting emails/phone calls asking about what organic stores we have, I have just over a hundred but they are growing away nicely, Def big demand at the moment

I'll PM you a contact who is looking for large numbers of organic stores going forward for a top end market.

 

[unlacedgecko]

I'll PM you a contact who is looking for large numbers of organic stores going forward for a top end market.

Please send me the same pm

 

[Sid]

Please send me the same pm

Done

 

[same crap different day]

Done

I'll PM you a contact who is looking for large numbers of organic stores going forward for a top end market.

Pm contact please ,organic stores ready to go

 

[Sid]

Pm contact please ,organic stores ready to go

Done

 

[Rob D]

Anyone know of dairy bred weaned organic Stirks going ? Devon