I can’t understand the complexity of the Russian vs Ukraine situation??

[Pilatus]

As a simple countryman , I am starting to get the impression that the Russia vs Ukraine situation is a lot more complex than I realised. I say that as I see certain groups in parts of the Ukraine are asking for Russian help
Can someone please explain the complex situation out their.Thanks

 

[Bongodog]

Ukraine was for a long time part of the USSR, there will be many Russians who moved there over the years who enjoyed considerable power lirding it over the locals. They want Russia back to get their power back.

 

[le bon paysan]

As a simple countryman , I am starting to get the impression that the Russia vs Ukraine situation is a lot more complex than I realised. I say that as I see certain groups in parts of the Ukraine are asking for Russian help
Can someone please explain the complex situation out their.Thanks

This is a good explanation...

The Ukraine-Russia crisis explained: a complete visual guide

Tensions have escalated sharply after Vladimir Putin ordered troops into east Ukraine. What might happen next?

www.theguardian.com

 

[le bon paysan]

Donetsk was actually founded in about 1860 by a Welsh mining and steel entrepreneur named Hughes? Its first inhabitants included people from Merthyr Tydfil. It still has some British public architecture today.

Before the Revolution it was called Yuzovka after its founder Hughes. Then after the Civil War it was named Trotsk for a few months, before changing to Stalino. Eager to erase Stalin's memory, Kruschev renamed it Donetsk after the River Don.
And the first reports out of Stalinist Russia about the great famine were sent by a Welsh reporter who had obtained insider credentials via connections that came his way after his mum had worked for Hughes. Here's a quick overview, but the main article is quite fascinating and worth tracking down (link is embedded): https://www.democraticunderground.com/100216381238

 

[Exfarmer]

Ukraine was for a long time part of the USSR, there will be many Russians who moved there over the years who enjoyed considerable power lirding it over the locals. They want Russia back to get their power back.

like so many larger countries, The Ukraine is a blend of many different peoples.
Its history is very complex with many different races laying claim to it over the centuries.
As with so many European states historic ties and wrongs are long remembered.
recent history is that 90 years ago Stalin collectivised this mostly agrarian economy , recognising the huge natural resource the soils there had producing, for the day bumper yields with precious little need for fertilisers.
The only issue was after collectivisation yields fell dramatically which Stalin blamed on peasant hoarding so he used the military to confiscate any food stocks they had.
The truth was after collectivisation the yields had fallen due to a lack of incentive to work for the commune, the peasants starved and at least 5 million died. check out the "Homolodor"
when a few years later in 1941 the Germans swept in, the locals regarded them as liberators and welcomed them with open arms.
Stalin never forgave them and millions more were swept up for the Siberian labour camps and in the meantime Russian soldiers were given the peasants land and houses.
Thus we now have a situation where many Ukrainians hate the Russian intruders as they see them. The Russians them selves are innocent of any wrong doing but they still feel unwelcome in what is now their home and they would happily see Vlad as their overlord.
This situation is true of much of the old Soviet Vassal states
of course we can see similarities in Northern Ireland and this goes back to similar plantations 300+ years ago.

 

[Danllan]

As a simple countryman , I am starting to get the impression that the Russia vs Ukraine situation is a lot more complex than I realised. I say that as I see certain groups in parts of the Ukraine are asking for Russian help
Can someone please explain the complex situation out their.Thanks

The Ukraine is a sovereign democracy, it has chosen to align with the West, Putin didn't like that...

 

[Ashtree]

like so many larger countries, The Ukraine is a blend of many different peoples.
Its history is very complex with many different races laying claim to it over the centuries.
As with so many European states historic ties and wrongs are long remembered.
recent history is that 90 years ago Stalin collectivised this mostly agrarian economy , recognising the huge natural resource the soils there had producing, for the day bumper yields with precious little need for fertilisers.
The only issue was after collectivisation yields fell dramatically which Stalin blamed on peasant hoarding so he used the military to confiscate any food stocks they had.
The truth was after collectivisation the yields had fallen due to a lack of incentive to work for the commune, the peasants starved and at least 5 million died. check out the "Homolodor"
when a few years later in 1941 the Germans swept in, the locals regarded them as liberators and welcomed them with open arms.
Stalin never forgave them and millions more were swept up for the Siberian labour camps and in the meantime Russian soldiers were given the peasants land and houses.
Thus we now have a situation where many Ukrainians hate the Russian intruders as they see them. The Russians them selves are innocent of any wrong doing but they still feel unwelcome in what is now their home and they would happily see Vlad as their overlord.
This situation is true of much of the old Soviet Vassal states
of course we can see similarities in Northern Ireland and this goes back to similar plantations 300+ years ago.

NI.

 

[Treg]

 

[Vader]

The Ukraine is a sovereign democracy, it has chosen to align with the West, Putin didn't like that...

It became a democracy after a revolution that toppled the leaders who were pro Russian.
So was not all democratic....
So there is a chunk of ppl there mainly in the east who saw their government overthrown and the political landscape change without a vote.

West said great.
If it had been other way round, west would have condemned it....

 

[Exfarmer]

It became a democracy after a revolution that toppled the leaders who were pro Russian.
So was not all democratic....
So there is a chunk of ppl there mainly in the east who saw their government overthrown and the political landscape change without a vote.

West said great.
If it had been other way round, west would have condemned it....

some revolution. After a vote which was widely regarded by monitors both domestically and internationally as having been heavily rigged, the Ukraine supreme court ordered a rare run which was generally regarded as having been free and fair. in this election the pro Russian was defeated.
Not some violent upheaval.

 

[Vader]

some revolution. After a vote which was widely regarded by monitors both domestically and internationally as having been heavily rigged, the Ukraine supreme court ordered a rare run which was generally regarded as having been free and fair. in this election the pro Russian was defeated.
Not some violent upheaval.

Revolution of Dignity - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Quite a few deaths there.....

 

[Muck Spreader]

It became a democracy after a revolution that toppled the leaders who were pro Russian.
So was not all democratic....
So there is a chunk of ppl there mainly in the east who saw their government overthrown and the political landscape change without a vote.

West said great.
If it had been other way round, west would have condemned it....

But it has been sovereign independent state for 30 years. In 1991 the people of Ukraine expressed deep and widespread support for the Act of Declaration of Independence, with more than 90% voting in favour, and 82% of the electorate participating. Wiki.

 

[bluegreen]

some revolution. After a vote which was widely regarded by monitors both domestically and internationally as having been heavily rigged, the Ukraine supreme court ordered a rare run which was generally regarded as having been free and fair. in this election the pro Russian was defeated.
Not some violent upheaval.

You mean like the US 2020 election??

 

[will l]

You mean like the US 2020 election?? tell your russian comrades to surrender to the superior Ukrainian forces or they will be killed,

 

[bluegreen]

No good talking to the Russian's Will, you need to talk to Putin's real boss over at the WEF.

 

[bluegreen]

Vladimir Putin talking at World Economic Forum (Davos) 2021. The full hour plus statement is available on youtube if you can be bothered to watch it, it's quite enlightening. Mr Putin and many other world leader's are member's of the exclusive WEF club.

 

[will l]

 

[wanton dwarf]

The Ukraine is a sovereign democracy, it has chosen to align with the West, Putin didn't like that...

Probably the dumbest reply on the thread @Danllan . Ignores the original posters request altogether and the facts on the ground, history and demonises Putin.



The fact is the Crimea region within Ukraine has a large Russian population and the only Russian military base in the Mediterranian.

The "Sovereign Democracy" - cough cough - was promoted by the EU giving 5 Billion Euros for regime change in 2014. With the promise of NATO protection they got rid of Ukranian nuclear weapons.

A civil war ensued between the "West" and "East" sides within Ukraine.

In 2015 the Minsk agreement created by France, Germany & Russia was negotiated - but the "West" side of Ukraine did NOT honour the agreement. So the civil war continued for 8 years (Notice nothing much in the news over this time). I "think" the "East" side was losing because the territorial border of the "East" side was behind the lines of the "West" forces. Perhaps this is why Putin had enough and took matters into his own hands.

However the lead up to this was War games with Russia, China, Belarus & Iran worldwide. So if this is a power play by anti Western forces, expect all those countries to join in at some point.

 

[Danllan]

Probably the dumbest reply on the thread @Danllan . Ignores the original posters request altogether and the facts on the ground, history and demonises Putin.



The fact is the Crimea region within Ukraine has a large Russian population and the only Russian military base in the Mediterranian.

The "Sovereign Democracy" - cough cough - was promoted by the EU giving 5 Billion Euros for regime change in 2014. With the promise of NATO protection they got rid of Ukranian nuclear weapons.

A civil war ensued between the "West" and "East" sides within Ukraine.

In 2015 the Minsk agreement created by France, Germany & Russia was negotiated - but the "West" side of Ukraine did NOT honour the agreement. So the civil war continued for 8 years (Notice nothing much in the news over this time). I "think" the "East" side was losing because the territorial border of the "East" side was behind the lines of the "West" forces. Perhaps this is why Putin had enough and took matters into his own hands.

However the lead up to this was War games with Russia, China, Belarus & Iran worldwide. So if this is a power play by anti Western forces, expect all those countries to join in at some point.

Do you have shares in bacofoil?

 

[Exfarmer]

Interesting take on geography from @wanton dwarf . Crimea was in the Black sea when i was at school.

there was no civil war im thr Ukraine until one was started by Russian special forces. They were taking a caning as the local populace did not rise up in support.
i am not sure how he argues that the Ukrainian government did not honour this as the border agreed in Minsk II as this line was maintained since. The separatists had never achieved anything but a small portion of the Eastern part of Ukraine before the ceasefire.
they have never been anytrhing but an arm of the Russian army