IB Flail Mower Blowing Grey Smoke and Tensioner Belt Snapped

pycoed

Member
---

Hi Pheasant Surprise,

I agree with you entirely - thank you.

I won't be buying a Chapman, that's for sure ...

The dealer has also replied to me and offered me a different flail mower but they said I could fit the hammers myself. I am more thinking I should get a refund instead. This new flail seems to be unbranded. What do you think - your humble opinion is most appreciated:

https://quadbikeparts.co.uk/atv-qua...ith-14-hp-briggs-stratton-e-start-engine.html

Thanks again - much appreciated.

Whichever flail you get, just be aware of the following:-
  • A 4 foot flail with 14hp is borderline for anything other than mowing a lawn
  • You are not going to cut 1 ft high grass or anything else at 4mph with anything you tow behind a quad. (Not in the Western half of this country, anyway!)
  • If your quad doesn't have low range, then don't buy another flail mower.
 

Highland Mule

Member
Livestock Farmer
---

Grass is new young grass. The field was a barley field before, so this is first new season grass. Totally dry conditions.

You're in Ayrshire, in April. The grass may not have raindrops on it, but it will be green still and hence not brittle. It will take more chewing than the brittle stalks in the video you attached.

---

I won't be buying a Chapman, that's for sure ...

Why not? they seem to be better designed and engineered equipment, and it sounds like you both need some engineering support (as evidenced by the thread questions) and don't worry about the money (as evidenced by paying a lot of money on a debit card with no protection)
 

Colt12

Member
Location
Anon
View attachment 788194

Some of the comments are real interesting, considering that I initially engaged the services of an experienced lifelong specialist to ask out of all agricultural vehicles (lawn tractor, zero turn mower, topper, flail mower, tractor with PTO), which would be best. Tractor with PTO ruled out as far too expensive for the small 5-acre paddock that I own. The Topper and certainly garden tractor / zero turn claiming to cut 5 acres (Husqvarna TS346 and Stiga ZT 5132T) not good enough either apparently, so that left the flail mower, suitable to be towed behind Honda 420cc farm quad bike. Would you agree that a topper, a John Deere 350R sit on garden tractor, the Husky (Varna) plus the Stiga wouldn't have been up to the job?

PS. For the commenters with an axe to grind, who failed to be constructive and shouldn't be commenting if they can't say anything constructive at all, I was given a full refund yesterday including the transportation fees returned too. Thumbs up to the commenters who have genuinely wanted to help. Thank you.
 
View attachment 788194

Some of the comments are real interesting, considering that I initially engaged the services of an experienced lifelong specialist to ask out of all agricultural vehicles (lawn tractor, zero turn mower, topper, flail mower, tractor with PTO), which would be best. Tractor with PTO ruled out as far too expensive for the small 5-acre paddock that I own. The Topper and certainly garden tractor / zero turn claiming to cut 5 acres (Husqvarna TS346 and Stiga ZT 5132T) not good enough either apparently, so that left the flail mower, suitable to be towed behind Honda 420cc farm quad bike. Would you agree that a topper, a John Deere 350R sit on garden tractor, the Husky (Varna) plus the Stiga wouldn't have been up to the job?

PS. For the commenters with an axe to grind, who failed to be constructive and shouldn't be commenting if they can't say anything constructive at all, I was given a full refund yesterday including the transportation fees returned too. Thumbs up to the commenters who have genuinely wanted to help. Thank you.
Yes indeed, with slightly more free budget considerations, the only other original suggestion I would’ve made would be a low hours commercial out front mower.

Plenty of ponies and with either a standard 60” rotary deck or FlailDek FX. It’s astounding how manoeuvrable they are, what slopes they go up and how high and thick grass they’ll get through. Amazingly good things.
 

Dave W

Member
Location
chesterfield
Yes indeed, with slightly more free budget considerations, the only other original suggestion I would’ve made would be a low hours commercial out front mower.

Plenty of ponies and with either a standard 60” rotary deck or FlailDek FX. It’s astounding how manoeuvrable they are, what slopes they go up and how high and thick grass they’ll get through. Amazingly good things.
Agreed. A proper commercial machine is required for 5 acres.
The husky and stiga mentioned above are garden machines
 
View attachment 788194

Some of the comments are real interesting, considering that I initially engaged the services of an experienced lifelong specialist to ask out of all agricultural vehicles (lawn tractor, zero turn mower, topper, flail mower, tractor with PTO), which would be best. Tractor with PTO ruled out as far too expensive for the small 5-acre paddock that I own. The Topper and certainly garden tractor / zero turn claiming to cut 5 acres (Husqvarna TS346 and Stiga ZT 5132T) not good enough either apparently, so that left the flail mower, suitable to be towed behind Honda 420cc farm quad bike. Would you agree that a topper, a John Deere 350R sit on garden tractor, the Husky (Varna) plus the Stiga wouldn't have been up to the job?

PS. For the commenters with an axe to grind, who failed to be constructive and shouldn't be commenting if they can't say anything constructive at all, I was given a full refund yesterday including the transportation fees returned too. Thumbs up to the commenters who have genuinely wanted to help. Thank you.
No one had an axe to grind, you just didn't like to hear our opinions.
 

Agri11

New Member
Hi,
I’ve got a Kuhn BNG 230 and the belts need replacing. Does anyone know how to remove them and give them some slack.
Thanks
 

Dave W

Member
Location
chesterfield
Hi,
I’ve got a Kuhn BNG 230 and the belts need replacing. Does anyone know how to remove them and give them some slack.
Thanks
There's no tensioner jockey wheel on those. The gearbox and drive shaft all slide as one. 4 bolts under the gearbox and an adjuster where the shaft goes through the end plate. Just a case of turning the belts off and back on one at a time. Not much slack to play with
 

Agri11

New Member
There's no tensioner jockey wheel on those. The gearbox and drive shaft all slide as one. 4 bolts under the gearbox and an adjuster where the shaft goes through the end plate. Just a case of turning the belts off and back on one at a time. Not much slack to play with
. Thank you very much. The problem is now are the bolts are solid and aren’t moving anywhere.
 

HermitJim

New Member
Just to add my tuppence-worth - I'm going through the identical issue Colt12 had, with an identical machine from the same supplier. Choke seems to work OK, but the belts are burning up. New belts were sent by quad bike parts, but they burnt up too. I'm now awaiting a new clutch to arrive for fitting myself. Interesting quote from QBP's latest email to me: "we sold more then hundred from this mower during this season without any similar problem" - perhaps I should send him a link to this thread! Heartening to learn that Colt12 got a full refund, at least I know it's possible; the return/refund option is looking increasingly likely after reading this thread. One thing caught my eye in reading the manual for Wessex's AF120 flail mower, which my mower looks like a knock-off of (though the Wessex machine has 3 belts and a proper, threaded belt tension adjuster as opposed to two belts and a flimsy belt tension spring) was this: "For centrifugal clutch machines, it is strongly advised not to put the machine to heavy work for the first 5 hours of use, as this can cause the clutch to overheat, consequently reducing its useful life". I do appreciate that the Wessex machine is likely built to a much higher standard than the Chinesium version, but my newbie question is, is there a run-in period for these clutches generally? Or is would this just be applicable to the Wessex machine? Thanks in advance.
 
Just to add my tuppence-worth - I'm going through the identical issue Colt12 had, with an identical machine from the same supplier. Choke seems to work OK, but the belts are burning up. New belts were sent by quad bike parts, but they burnt up too. I'm now awaiting a new clutch to arrive for fitting myself. Interesting quote from QBP's latest email to me: "we sold more then hundred from this mower during this season without any similar problem" - perhaps I should send him a link to this thread! Heartening to learn that Colt12 got a full refund, at least I know it's possible; the return/refund option is looking increasingly likely after reading this thread. One thing caught my eye in reading the manual for Wessex's AF120 flail mower, which my mower looks like a knock-off of (though the Wessex machine has 3 belts and a proper, threaded belt tension adjuster as opposed to two belts and a flimsy belt tension spring) was this: "For centrifugal clutch machines, it is strongly advised not to put the machine to heavy work for the first 5 hours of use, as this can cause the clutch to overheat, consequently reducing its useful life". I do appreciate that the Wessex machine is likely built to a much higher standard than the Chinesium version, but my newbie question is, is there a run-in period for these clutches generally? Or is would this just be applicable to the Wessex machine? Thanks in advance.

We don't advise anything similar to Wessex as a run-in period for our machines (which are all centrifugal clutch driven), but then we use using a bespoke clutch from a German manufacturer rather then the off-the-shelf unit that our competitors fit.

Having said that the primary cause of centrifugal clutch failures will be not having enough power, as an engine which is too small for the task at hand will reduce in speed until the point that the clutch starts to slip due to the frictional forces being lower at lower engine rpm. Flails need a huge amount of power which is one of the reasons the smallest engine we fit is 21hp and we're looking at upgrading to fuel injection next year to ensure a constant engine output RPM is maintained.
 

HermitJim

New Member
We don't advise anything similar to Wessex as a run-in period for our machines (which are all centrifugal clutch driven), but then we use using a bespoke clutch from a German manufacturer rather then the off-the-shelf unit that our competitors fit.

Having said that the primary cause of centrifugal clutch failures will be not having enough power, as an engine which is too small for the task at hand will reduce in speed until the point that the clutch starts to slip due to the frictional forces being lower at lower engine rpm. Flails need a huge amount of power which is one of the reasons the smallest engine we fit is 21hp and we're looking at upgrading to fuel injection next year to ensure a constant engine output RPM is maintained.

Useful feedback, thank you for taking the time. Looking at the manual for the Chapman FM120, I note that "On some new machines the clutches can ‘stick’ on idle, before the clutch linings bed-in & hence will operate before the normal clutch cut-in point. This is not a fault with the clutch or machine - after approximately 1-2 hours use the clutch will operate normally." Having said which, sticking in idle for an hour or two is rather different from setting belts alight in ten minutes! The Briggs and Stratton 420cc engine on my mower is also just rated at 13.5Hp, which from what you're saying sounds like it's way underpowered for the job.

I did look at the Chapman site while I was searching to buy but have to confess I moved on because you don't publish prices, which, rightly or wrongly, always makes me a little wary. Would you have a pricelist anywhere? Looks like I might be back in the market in the near future! Thanks again for your help.
 
Useful feedback, thank you for taking the time. Looking at the manual for the Chapman FM120, I note that "On some new machines the clutches can ‘stick’ on idle, before the clutch linings bed-in & hence will operate before the normal clutch cut-in point. This is not a fault with the clutch or machine - after approximately 1-2 hours use the clutch will operate normally." Having said which, sticking in idle for an hour or two is rather different from setting belts alight in ten minutes! The Briggs and Stratton 420cc engine on my mower is also just rated at 13.5Hp, which from what you're saying sounds like it's way underpowered for the job.

I did look at the Chapman site while I was searching to buy but have to confess I moved on because you don't publish prices, which, rightly or wrongly, always makes me a little wary. Would you have a pricelist anywhere? Looks like I might be back in the market in the near future! Thanks again for your help.

To extrapolate on our manual wording a bit more - the idle speed on the GX630 we fit is 1,400 RPM +/- 150 rpm, with the engagement speed on the clutch set to 1650rpm +/- 100rpm (a lower engagement speed allows a higher torque rating and reduces the chances of clutch slippage even under severe loading). So very rarely an engine with a higher idle and a clutch with a lower idle will meet, hence the note in the manual.

The GX630 will produce 48.3Nm torque at 2500RPM and the clutch can handle 142Nm at this speed, and 411Nm at full engine speed - so nicely spec'd to allow for heavy use.

As we offer a 2 year warranty on our products we only sell through distributors, so that there is a local point of contact should any warranty work (although very rare) be required, and therefore we don't list our prices on the site currently. We have a new site coming in the Autumn and it's something we will be addressing then.

I've sent you a DM with our price list.

Hopefully this information is helpful for you, if there is anything else you need just ask.

James
 
To extrapolate on our manual wording a bit more - the idle speed on the GX630 we fit is 1,400 RPM +/- 150 rpm, with the engagement speed on the clutch set to 1650rpm +/- 100rpm (a lower engagement speed allows a higher torque rating and reduces the chances of clutch slippage even under severe loading). So very rarely an engine with a higher idle and a clutch with a lower idle will meet, hence the note in the manual.

The GX630 will produce 48.3Nm torque at 2500RPM and the clutch can handle 142Nm at this speed, and 411Nm at full engine speed - so nicely spec'd to allow for heavy use.

As we offer a 2 year warranty on our products we only sell through distributors, so that there is a local point of contact should any warranty work (although very rare) be required, and therefore we don't list our prices on the site currently. We have a new site coming in the Autumn and it's something we will be addressing then.

I've sent you a DM with our price list.

Hopefully this information is helpful for you, if there is anything else you need just ask.

James
The whole idea of fitting a clutch inside a flail drive just fills me with dread. Having seen what a “proper” flail behind a tractor with 5-belts has to contend with torque - and shredded all five belts on several occasions - a clutch no matter how good stands no hope. A centrifugal clutch is just nonsense on a flail. Bound to fail.

When you guys start fitting the new injected iGX Honda V-twin engines, surely you’d direct drive it and do away with any sort of clutch which - just button start and stop surely, computer set rpm. All done and dusted.
 

HermitJim

New Member
To extrapolate on our manual wording a bit more - the idle speed on the GX630 we fit is 1,400 RPM +/- 150 rpm, with the engagement speed on the clutch set to 1650rpm +/- 100rpm (a lower engagement speed allows a higher torque rating and reduces the chances of clutch slippage even under severe loading). So very rarely an engine with a higher idle and a clutch with a lower idle will meet, hence the note in the manual.

The GX630 will produce 48.3Nm torque at 2500RPM and the clutch can handle 142Nm at this speed, and 411Nm at full engine speed - so nicely spec'd to allow for heavy use.

As we offer a 2 year warranty on our products we only sell through distributors, so that there is a local point of contact should any warranty work (although very rare) be required, and therefore we don't list our prices on the site currently. We have a new site coming in the Autumn and it's something we will be addressing then.

I've sent you a DM with our price list.

Hopefully this information is helpful for you, if there is anything else you need just ask.

James


Thanks James. DM'd you (plus email!) cheers, Jim
 

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