Iceberg diseases like MV and Cla , is it time we need industry action ?

[andybk]

Have heard of serious issues regarding MV problems in flocks this autumn down here in the south from bought in ewe lambs/ 2t from north , and in traditional uk commercial female breeds as well as crossbred rams (im not blaming the northern female breeders its just where they all came from ) ,The commercial flocks that monitor it got a few reactors over time but are now getting a serious % with the disease in young tested sheep 80% in one group ! , despite care in mixing new stock on farm they are now destocking maybe to leave industry for good as they cant keep MV under control .The breeders in question wernt interested when contacted and they would be selling some of the best for sale . With the amount of movements that take place at this time of year usually from one end of country to the other and the big ram sales kicking off , , is it time we made a concerted effort to try and eradicate it ? as i think its a time bomb waiting to happen far worse than scab (at least you can see scab) , . Many ram breeders already belong to Mv schemes but even some of those are breaking down where they also have commercial ewes on farm and they get mixed or lamb together . Certainly need more publicity over issues it causes , as many breeders / dealers are still in denial over infections, Dealers whilst doing a very good service are risking huge problems in the name of trade ,

 

[Sheepfog]

Both commercial and pedigree flocks are MV accredited here. Stock rams tested for CLA and Scrapie genotyped (all are ARR/ARR).

I’ll only buy stock rams from MV flocks. Personally, I wouldn’t buy from a flock that only “screens” the bottom end of their ewes for iceberg diseases. I have seen people import CLA from such flocks, luckily the rams were still in quarantine. Rams from the big breeding companies/groups should all be MV accredited, particularly as they often come with a hefty price tag.

 

[Tim W]

There is more demand for disease tested stock with more awareness of the financial and welfare issues from some of these conditions but there are so many folk that seem happy to take the risk
We supply our customers with high genetic merit animals but they need to be healthy too

I test everything that comes on farm regardless of health status of the flock of origin
The last 2 tups i bought from society sales both tested +tive for MV ---it's expensive to buy an animal , bring it home , test it and then cull it when it proves to be a disease carrier ----but it's cheaper than infecting your whole flock

Testing for MV & BD is quite cheap so there is no excuse really ---
Buyers --ask your ram breeders for proof of health status
Sellers/breeders---get your act together! You're meant to be providing a service

 

[twizzel]

It’s the same as cattle diseases like BVD- even with funding to help farmers go BVD free, there will always be those that think it doesn’t affect them. The only way to eradicate these diseases is compulsory/mandatory testing.

 

[andybk]

It’s the same as cattle diseases like BVD- even with funding to help farmers go BVD free, there will always be those that think it doesn’t affect them. The only way to eradicate these diseases is compulsory/mandatory testing.

with 2t ewes hitting near £200 a head i agree , ,a lot of value tied up to risk it these days ,quite how you police it i dont know. I was offered some tidy charmoise ewes / lambs , but from a non ac source (dealer )and at a good price , the risk to my business was just too much , even with testing , just a few days on his farm could sink my whole income with regard what i didnt test for .

 

[neilo]

The only way such diseases will be eradicated is if buyers demand it, and vote with their chequebooks.
That’s just not going to happen, when appearance ranks higher than health status.
Several Mv accredited breeders have been caught out recently by using non-Mv mule ewes as ET recipients to carry their expensively produced embryos

Why should there be a compulsion to eradicate Mv if there is no demand for it?

Personally, I’ll look after everything inside my own gate, with everything here accredited, and leave others in the industry to decide whether they think it’s an important issue or not.

 

[neilo]

I am led to believe that there is very little transmission in extensively managed, outdoor lambed flocks, as it is spread primarily through breath and body fluids.

A perfect breeding ground for spreading it within a flock is winter housing, indoor lambing, or adult sheep all sharing a feed hopper in the run up to the shearling sales….

 

[Mc115reed]

In a world where people are more bothered about how pretty a ewes face is rather than if it can walk on all 4 legs and the Welsh just live with scab riddling half the countryside and not much intention in treating it… we have no hope for this kind of thing

 

[Jones wales]

That's a bit of a brash statement about us Welsh. Take it you've traveled extensively across Wales to come up with this statement !!

In a world where people are more bothered about how pretty a ewes face is rather than if it can walk on all 4 legs and the Welsh just live with scab riddling half the countryside and not much intention in treating it… we have no hope for this kind of thing

 

[andybk]

I am led to believe that there is very little transmission in extensively managed, outdoor lambed flocks, as it is spread primarily through breath and body fluids.

A perfect breeding ground for spreading it within a flock is winter housing, indoor lambing, or adult sheep all sharing a feed hopper in the run up to the shearling sales….

That's what they say but one flock I know of is 5000 ewes all outwintered / outdoor lambing , buys mv rams from me and buys ewes off same farms every year (non ac) has big problems

 

[Ffermer Bach]

There is more demand for disease tested stock with more awareness of the financial and welfare issues from some of these conditions but there are so many folk that seem happy to take the risk
We supply our customers with high genetic merit animals but they need to be healthy too

I test everything that comes on farm regardless of health status of the flock of origin
The last 2 tups i bought from society sales both tested +tive for MV ---it's expensive to buy an animal , bring it home , test it and then cull it when it proves to be a disease carrier ----but it's cheaper than infecting your whole flock

Testing for MV & BD is quite cheap so there is no excuse really ---
Buyers --ask your ram breeders for proof of health status
Sellers/breeders---get your act together! You're meant to be providing a service

do I take it that Exlana tups are tested for everything then?

 

[Estate fencing.]

In a world where people are more bothered about how pretty a ewes face is rather than if it can walk on all 4 legs and the Welsh just live with scab riddling half the countryside and not much intention in treating it… we have no hope for this kind of thing

I think that is a bit harsh on the welsh. Scab is pretty easy to treat if you are the only person in the area with sheep and in fenced fields. Not so easy if you have 2000 ewes on unfenced hills over 4000 acres with 20 neighbors. You are never going to get them all in for dipping and if you do next door will get in with yours at some point in the year.

 

[Frank-the-Wool]

There is no doubt that the extent of the problem isn't known. However as the value of sheep increases there is every possibility that more blood testing occurs and hopefully a strategy for treating these becomes clear. There was an initiative by APHA called the thin ewe project where they were tested. I am not sure the results were ever released but I was told that many were not particularly thin and those that were had an issue with having no teeth!!

I am sure the problems are not all the same as in my experience MV is very much a problem in sheep that are housed, it would be interesting to know if it is brought into an outdoor lambing flock, how much of an issue it becomes.
There are other diseases, mostly in Scotland and the north of England such as OPA which are very difficult to eliminate.

Johnes in sheep can be a significant problem and often difficult to test for to get an indication of the level of it. You can test for it in an old sheep that becomes poor but not in a young sheep that may have the potential to pass it on.

 

[CopperBeech]

Been testing for years but like most things, most farmers are clueless.

 

[Tim W]

do I take it that Exlana tups are tested for everything then?

Border disease-all tups are tested pre sale
MV---flocks are either MV acc/MV monitored (new Axiom scheme) or tested free pre sale

All stud flocks have extensive screening programs for various diseases , this varies from farm to farm depending on risk assessment but includes annual testing of all stock rams and all rams moving between stud farms being tested for Johnes, CLA, MV
Not all tests are as accurate as we would like so it's difficult to claim a ''free from disease'' status
Even flocks that have been MV acc for years have been known to find cases

 

[polk_farmer]

We are in the midst of how to decide to go forward with the news of having border disease in our flock. ( I think this season will just be a case of chucking some PI lambs in with the unpregnant ewes). Gold standard blood testing every ewe will be a pretty crippling vets bill and time consuming, so I can't see why it isn't possible to do the tissue tags like BVD. If this was a possibility then testing would become alot more widespread. As BVD is pretty similar to border I can't see why it cannot happen.

 

[M-J-G]

MV accredited here, have scanned the past 2 years for OPA and not found anything so far, not that that counts for much.

A fair few Blackie breeders are getting flocks scanned these days.

 

[Agrivator]

MV accredited here, have scanned the past 2 years for OPA and not found anything so far, not that that counts for much.

A fair few Blackie breeders are getting flocks scanned these days.

Do you also test for Jaagsiekte - otherwise known as ''Icelandic Disease'', or alternatively '' Blackface tup lamb (kept tightly packed in a room in an old cottage near the steading and fed profusely in preparation for a tup night viewing by fellow breeders who have consumed numerous drams immediately beforehand) disease''.

 

[Boso]

Sold my whole flock (140/150 ewes at that time) last year (no mv related problems). Wanted to be mv free without to much fuss.
Buying new was quickest. Over here it would have cost me around €35-50 per ewe all cost included to have my own flock be tested twice, vet, samples to the lab, labour etc.
I sold my non mv ac ewes for around €75 per ewe. Replacement ewes cost me €200 per ewe.

After selling everything and buying new, I now have and mv free flock. However, I have had sheep die and underperform by practically everything else possible. Dead sheep by dog, scab from someone else, footrot which I never had, sore mouth, few worm cases, some fly strike which I never had in my home bred shedders.
Adding these cost to the price per ewe for the new flock €235,- per ewe was more accurate.

I fully agree that mv can be a major problem to the sector. However, sheep can suffer from so many issues. After having the new flock for a year, from a ROI point of view it has been a bad investment to go mv free. Which is why others don't do it as well I guess.

I think the Yanks have a found a dna marker for OPP (similar to MV) resistant animals (tmem ....?). Same university that has been breeding shedding easy care sheep, Uni from Nebraska or USMARC institute.
If we could have such a test, that would be a real practical tool against mv. Imho also more valuable to have MV resistant sheep instead of MV free (which could be free but still susceptible to mv).

 

[M-J-G]

Do you also test for Jaagsiekte - otherwise known as ''Icelandic Disease'', or alternatively '' Blackface tup lamb (kept tightly packed in a room in an old cottage near the steading and fed profusely in preparation for a tup night viewing by fellow breeders who have consumed numerous drams immediately beforehand) disease''.

Not tested for it so far.