Ideal time for all farmers with any common sense to tell farm assurance schemes to go to hell.

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Humble Village Farmer

Member
BASE UK Member
Location
Essex
These threads are becoming repetitive now. It’s the same people telling each other the same thing over and over again.

keith challen mentioned over the top red tractor in his FW article this week. Need more stuff like that.
I know it's repetitive but we've got to keep the pressure up and making ourselves understood, however boring it is.

I know we're preaching to the converted mainly, but the forum isn't just read by farmers as you know.

The mental health issue is very real and a lot of proper farmers get very stressed over the inspection - a stupid failure for something insignificant can be a serious threat to the business.

Sorry to repeat myself but it is important.
 

DrWazzock

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lincolnshire
I know it's repetitive but we've got to keep the pressure up and making ourselves understood, however boring it is.

I know we're preaching to the converted mainly, but the forum isn't just read by farmers as you know.

The mental health issue is very real and a lot of proper farmers get very stressed over the inspection - a stupid failure for something insignificant can be a serious threat to the business.

Sorry to repeat myself but it is important.
Folks just don’t understand the impact of losing assured status on for example, forward grain sales.
I once had four loads booked to go in a January. Sprayer wasn’t MOT’d due to Covid, so they failed my RT in December. Try getting a sprayer tester out over the Christmas holiday. Then had to appeal to RT for an extension. Sprayer not even in use. Forward sales cancelled as no longer RT. So in default of contract with merchant. Cashflow now short by £20k. Merchant not best pleased. And folk say RT isn’t a source of stress or mental health problems. Ruined my Christmas that’s for sure. Nearly finished my business.
TBH, with the sort of snotty letters I got about requesting an extension I think they actually gloat and take pleasure in holding us to ransom.
Red Tractor is a despicable, greedy, mercenary self serving parasitical organisation.
And somebody tell me if any other profession would tolerate it’s very own union inflicting such a travesty in its own members?
Farmers just can’t get enough of being dumped on, it would seem.
 

DeeGee

Member
Location
North East Wales
As an insect under the boot heel of my dairy contract that stipulates being in RT (as are all dairy producers), how do you propose I approach this without being squished?
Entirely up to you what you do. Not for me to to tell you what to do with your business.
I and others might suggest things, but ultimately everyone of course has to look after their own interests.

If it were I in your position, then maybe I would perhaps canvass other local milk producers, beef farmers and arable neighbours to unite in one area of the UK. Some may well decline, but if only few agreed to rebel........?

Private enterprise is the key. Some will of course decline, but many would undoubtedly agree to rebel.
 

kiwi pom

Member
Location
canterbury NZ
Can your grain be sold for export without a RT assurance?
I've asked that several times before, still none the wiser. My guess is, possibly. Its all grain merchants and middlemen there and they don't care what they ask for, farmers have lost control of their markets trying to get an extra quid and not have to find buyers themselves. I bet some don't even know where its going until the truck driver tells them. That's why RT crept in, you wouldn't need it if you did one on one deals with the customer, you could just negotiate terms with them. Now buyers don't know where the grain is coming from, they just know that their merchant is sending some. RT means they know is going to be to a certain standard, without them having to check
 

JeepJeep

Member
Trade
Words in order

Farmer words Common Sense Rearrange Lets....... Fail

Yeh Carry On.....

Time of Price Rocket and Shortage... For f**ks sake grow a set stand together and bring it all home
 

Jackov Altraids

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Devon
Any assurance scheme is fine if it offers a specific value for meeting specific requirements.

Red tractor fails to do this.

It also fails to meet at least half of the NFU's principles for how an assurance scheme should operate but they still continue to support it.

The biggest problem for UK ag. is that RT, with its support from the NFU, is actively preventing an effective assurance scheme from being set up.

The way in which RT has been set up and effectively made compulsory is probably illegal.
 
Communism is wanting everyone to get the same payments, no matter how well or badly they are performing. Capitalism is about those that produce what their customers want rising to the top. Those that don't raise their game, fall by the wayside and go and do something else more suited to their skillset. Expecting to be paid for doing what you've always done, irrespective of market demands, is very communist indeed.......


Capitalism is about making money.

If you are selling products they don't have to functional, viable or even real - such as some of the internet companies circa 2000.

Caveat Emptor - Buyer Beware.

Just because a customer buys something doesn't mean they actually want it at all. Hence adverts, marketing and public relations.

Just like Red Tractor I guess .. doesn't do anything but costs lots of money.
 
Last edited:

redsloe

Member
Location
Cornwall
Or potato growers. Or pig farmers.
Or beef farmers that sell direct to abattoir. Its not voluntary if there's no other market available. I could obviously sell stores to market, I could even torture my animals for 24 months, but as long as they move to an RT finisher for 3 months then it's all good!
At the end of the day, if a inspector turns up and the animals look fine then more than likely everything's fine. Just like it was 20 years ago when RT was dreamed up.
 

Spud

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
YO62
Or beef farmers that sell direct to abattoir. Its not voluntary if there's no other market available. I could obviously sell stores to market, I could even torture my animals for 24 months, but as long as they move to an RT finisher for 3 months then it's all good!
At the end of the day, if a inspector turns up and the animals look fine then more than likely everything's fine. Just like it was 20 years ago when RT was dreamed up.
I agree

What pulls my chain is the pig assurance. We have quartely vet inspections by trained eyes that put pigs before paperwork. What extra value are the three assurance audits bringing? They look at the same pigs, sheds and paperwork, but not through a vets eyes. Pointless.
 

Bald Rick

Moderator
Livestock Farmer
Location
Anglesey
Entirely up to you what you do. Not for me to to tell you what to do with your business.
I and others might suggest things, but ultimately everyone of course has to look after their own interests.

If it were I in your position, then maybe I would perhaps canvass other local milk producers, beef farmers and arable neighbours to unite in one area of the UK. Some may well decline, but if only few agreed to rebel........?

Private enterprise is the key. Some will of course decline, but many would undoubtedly agree to rebel.

I'm a dung beetle happily rolling my ball of slurry....

If I refused RT, then my processor would - like all other dairy processors - terminate my contract immediately.
What then my entomologist friend?
 

kiwi pom

Member
Location
canterbury NZ
I'm a dung beetle happily rolling my ball of slurry....

If I refused RT, then my processor would - like all other dairy processors - terminate my contract immediately.
What then my entomologist friend?
I bet your processor hates assurance/quality schemes as much as you guys but the customers that buy the finished product want them to be able to show they are buying quality milk. They could come up with their own scheme like Arlagarden (do Arla suppliers still need to be RT?) or they could pick an off the shelf scheme that everyone is familiar with.

Is it very expensive for dairy? On another thread 250 quid has been mentioned for beef and sheep, same again for cereals.
 

Spud

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
YO62
I bet your processor hates assurance/quality schemes as much as you guys but the customers that buy the finished product want them to be able to show they are buying quality milk. They could come up with their own scheme like Arlagarden (do Arla suppliers still need to be RT?) or they could pick an off the shelf scheme that everyone is familiar with.

Is it very expensive for dairy? On another thread 250 quid has been mentioned for beef and sheep, same again for cereals.
It's more expensive for assured produce. The multi pesticide residue test is £179 for a start, for a tick in a box. 4hrs for the inspection, never mind the prep and sorting the inevitable non conformances because the standard has changed yet again.
Neck end of a grand. What value does it bring?
 

VIP

Member
Trade
Folks just don’t understand the impact of losing assured status on for example, forward grain sales.
I once had four loads booked to go in a January. Sprayer wasn’t MOT’d due to Covid, so they failed my RT in December. Try getting a sprayer tester out over the Christmas holiday. Then had to appeal to RT for an extension. Sprayer not even in use. Forward sales cancelled as no longer RT. So in default of contract with merchant. Cashflow now short by £20k. Merchant not best pleased. And folk say RT isn’t a source of stress or mental health problems. Ruined my Christmas that’s for sure. Nearly finished my business.
TBH, with the sort of snotty letters I got about requesting an extension I think they actually gloat and take pleasure in holding us to ransom.
Red Tractor is a despicable, greedy, mercenary self serving parasitical organisation.
And somebody tell me if any other profession would tolerate it’s very own union inflicting such a travesty in its own members?
Farmers just can’t get enough of being dumped on, it would seem.

forward sale cancelled? Or rolled forward a month to give you time to sort your RT out? It reads like your well sold wht sale was actually cancelled leaving you to sell at a lower price….is that actually what you are saying?
 

DrWazzock

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lincolnshire
forward sale cancelled? Or rolled forward a month to give you time to sort your RT out? It reads like your well sold wht sale was actually cancelled leaving you to sell at a lower price….is that actually what you are saying?
Collection moved on a month at my merchants discretion but he could have rightly said you have defaulted and charged me his costs for fulfilling his end of the contract.
I’ll also add that RT has forced us down the central storage route. So that’s cost us £20k up front and an extra £5k pa in grain handling and storage costs on a 200 acre farm. We might recoup some of this in costs saved on farm, ergot removal and the ability to make sales later through the season for better prices BUT £5k is a big annual hit for us. The days of making do and mending, being careful and still delivering a safe product on a shoestring, which is the only way is small farmers survived, are well and truly over thanks to the likes of RT and all the consequential costs they have incurred us. They’ve driven the final nail into the coffin of small farms in my view. A constant barrage of cost upon cost.
 
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Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

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As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
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