If Boris does get a deal....

View attachment 832342View attachment 832344
Farage's backing Boris ,open letter in Papers today.
Leave eu
This does make me chuckle, if anyone actually thinks for one minute the Tories are going to do a pact deal with Farage then you really need to get a grip. Boris wants to remain PM, he wants to take us out the EU, but do it with Farage as a partner? He is more likely to get a small amendment on Mays deal end of October, ask for a small extension to sign it off, get the backing of JC to get it through because it's not a No Deal and they can't object as it's a deal that's not a ND. He can then have ditch his need for an election and the risk of losing seats by claiming the time for an election was September, everyone voted against it so now is the time to get to work. Farage will be history and no MEP salary to cream off, labour would be in turmoil - job done. Farage is history, he knows it hence doing anything he can to remain relevant, in any case if the Uk leave then he has done his job, he should then feck offf along with all his fellow BP MEPS. On the other hand - something else might happen....
 

arcobob

Member
Location
Norfolk
Cant disagree with much of that, some high stakes.
Bit of a pickle....brother against brother ( and sister )
The Eu also fear the MEPs in the "Trojan Horse" who could continually attempt to disrupt EU procedures. Probably not much more than a severe irritation most of the time but as the EU becomes more shaky it could prove fatal. I am sure that they would be happier without us in their immediate crisis.
 

The Agrarian

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Northern Ireland
Are you suggesting the public don’t want Brexit any more? If so, then why would we not stop right now?

Yes I am suggesting that's a real possibility. I'm not a big fan of doing constitutional change (or constitutional-like change) in a hurry, on a dubious majority. So I've never been a fan of the Brexit referendum for those reasons. 52:48 simply isn't good enough. Wind blows on another day and it's a different outcome. I'd feel exactly the same about a border poll in Northern Ireland. A close-run simple majority is not good enough for us, especially when it involves handing our territory and responsibility for our governance and taxes to a foreign country, and changing our nationality.

So I think, given the parliamentary quagmire, a GE not only opens up the possibility of changing the arithmetic in the direction of a decent governing majority, but also would be a useful barometer of public opinion on the big issue of the day.
 

caveman

Member
Location
East Sussex.

Martin Holden

Member
Trade
Location
Cheltenham
We were right to join in 75 and we were right to vote leave in the referendum. It's a completely different organisation now compared to the one we joined. The goalposts are on the halfway line now and we've just been dragged along with no real say on it. Cameron gave us a say and said the people spoke.
Indeed, when you look back our PM’s have been regularly rebuffed by the EU commission a fact that many folk may have overlooked. A federal Europe appears to be the aim and that is mightily different to the Common Market we originally joined. A United States is Europe is a flawed objective as ultimately our Brexit could be a minor skirmish compared to may lay ahead. And I voted remain! However you have to look at it the complete picture over several decades to try to see “where are we really...... now”? Europe needs a wake up call; I just didn’t think it would be the UK that provoked this, but we have and that’s that. So we have to get on with life as the current impasse is both unnecessary and pointless. The referendum was “in or out”? There was not one mention of a “deal”. My belief is that European businesses are more worried about their business than their politicians so a deal may well still be possible.
 

arcobob

Member
Location
Norfolk
And at the end of the day no-one seems able to quantify the benefit of Brexit .
Only “out means out”
Or the long term benefit of remain. It depends which horse you prefer to back. The "experts" have not made many correct predictions so far and unless you are capable of living another 50 years you will never know the final outcome.
 

Martin Holden

Member
Trade
Location
Cheltenham
I’m sorry, but your response reeks of desperation. You expect the country to trust a proven liar, when his own family (who presumably know him better than you do) don’t?
Most politicians are liars at some point! Your response could suggest that you don’t recognise the result of the referendum. That was a majority decision, a close one I admit, but a majority. Isn’t that what English democracy is about. Where would we be if all close votes were argued like this one? We’d get no where, precisely where we are now.
 

arcobob

Member
Location
Norfolk
Yes I am suggesting that's a real possibility. I'm not a big fan of doing constitutional change (or constitutional-like change) in a hurry, on a dubious majority. So I've never been a fan of the Brexit referendum for those reasons. 52:48 simply isn't good enough. Wind blows on another day and it's a different outcome. I'd feel exactly the same about a border poll in Northern Ireland. A close-run simple majority is not good enough for us, especially when it involves handing our territory and responsibility for our governance and taxes to a foreign country, and changing our nationality.

So I think, given the parliamentary quagmire, a GE not only opens up the possibility of changing the arithmetic in the direction of a decent governing majority, but also would be a useful barometer of public opinion on the big issue of the day.
And the constitutional change that got us into this mess was by popular consent? My rear end.
 

arcobob

Member
Location
Norfolk
Most politicians are liars at some point! Your response could suggest that you don’t recognise the result of the referendum. That was a majority decision, a close one I admit, but a majority. Isn’t that what English democracy is about. Where would we be if all close votes were argued like this one? We’d get no where, precisely where we are now.
Most politicians are liars at some point! Your response could suggest that you don’t recognise the result of the referendum. That was a majority decision, a close one I admit, but a majority. Isn’t that what English democracy is about. Where would we be if all close votes were argued like this one? We’d get no where, precisely where we are now.
More importantly ignored or reversed by conniving, power seeking, twisting politicians. Who on here questions parliamentary election results where the difference is 3%?.
 

Jackov Altraids

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Devon
Yes I am suggesting that's a real possibility. I'm not a big fan of doing constitutional change (or constitutional-like change) in a hurry, on a dubious majority. So I've never been a fan of the Brexit referendum for those reasons. 52:48 simply isn't good enough. Wind blows on another day and it's a different outcome. I'd feel exactly the same about a border poll in Northern Ireland. A close-run simple majority is not good enough for us, especially when it involves handing our territory and responsibility for our governance and taxes to a foreign country, and changing our nationality.

So I think, given the parliamentary quagmire, a GE not only opens up the possibility of changing the arithmetic in the direction of a decent governing majority, but also would be a useful barometer of public opinion on the big issue of the day.

I believe a general election is a terrible idea.
Do you want the UK to be run for the next 5 years by MP's that are not selected on any other mandate than how they would vote on one decision?
The good reason to have had the referendum is to take a decision on a non-party political matter.
The fact that every elected member seems to fail in understanding this is what is destroying parliament.
 

Jackov Altraids

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Devon
@Highland Mule "Not at all. They are both examples of blatant bare faced lies. Do you need me to explain to you, or can you manage to operate google? "


Well I'm sorry to have considered you to be too intelligent and well mannered to have believed that to have been a reasonable reply.

I have now 'managed to google' kipper and pork pie.

I can see why you chose not to elaborate further as I didn't read any evidence of a lie.
He may well have made an error and repeated something he was told in good faith .
"A lie is an assertion that is believed to be false, typically used with the purpose of deceiving someone."

Given the huge scrutiny Boris Johnson has always been under with so many critics vying to undermine him, it is quite something that you can't come up with a better example when he is well known for talking 'off-message'.
 
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Agrivator

Member
I hope that the present dispute between the leaders of the Labour Party at the TUC conference will galvanise more of the moderate MPs in Tory and Labour parties and maybe some of the LibDems to join Stephen Kinnock and Caroline Flint et al in forming a major cross party group to ensure that a version of Theresa May's Withdrawal Agreement can emerge from cross-party talks to break the deadlock over Brexit.

If, according to Caroline Flint, as many as 50 Labour MPs can coaless, I think it might embolden even more of their colleagues to defy Corbyn and his appalling Front Bench, and help achieve a significant majority for a sensible deal.
 
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Highland Mule

Member
Livestock Farmer
@Highland Mule "Not at all. They are both examples of blatant bare faced lies. Do you need me to explain to you, or can you manage to operate google? "


Well I'm sorry to have considered you to be too intelligent and well mannered to have believed that to have been a reasonable reply.

I have now 'managed to google' kipper and pork pie.

I can see why you chose not to elaborate further as I didn't read any evidence of a lie.
He may well have made an error and repeated something he was told in good faith .
"A lie is an assertion that is believed to be false, typically used with the purpose of deceiving someone."

Given the huge scrutiny Boris Johnson has always been under with so many critics vying to undermine him, it is quite something that you can't come up with a better example when he is well known for talking 'off-message'.

Been a busy few days, so sorry I didn’t have more time to reply in detail before. The issue did make the need though, and I admit I assumed that you’d be aware of it. I won’t have time to dig out the actual quotes now either, but did feel you deserved a reply.

The kipper one - he blamed a very specific set of rules on the EU during a formal hustings session and in doing so deceived the audience by stating EU negative influence where there was none. In fact, the constraints he was lamenting didn’t actually exist as they were represented and what constraints there were come from UK regulations. Claiming EU rules interfere where they don’t exist is a common theme for Boris though - he made a career out of “fake news” aka lies in journalism before he entered politics, and has even been found to have fabricated third party quotes to back up his fabricated lies.
 

Jackov Altraids

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Devon
Been a busy few days, so sorry I didn’t have more time to reply in detail before. The issue did make the need though, and I admit I assumed that you’d be aware of it. I won’t have time to dig out the actual quotes now either, but did feel you deserved a reply.

The kipper one - he blamed a very specific set of rules on the EU during a formal hustings session and in doing so deceived the audience by stating EU negative influence where there was none. In fact, the constraints he was lamenting didn’t actually exist as they were represented and what constraints there were come from UK regulations. Claiming EU rules interfere where they don’t exist is a common theme for Boris though - he made a career out of “fake news” aka lies in journalism before he entered politics, and has even been found to have fabricated third party quotes to back up his fabricated lies.

Thank you.

There have been many occasions when I have queried officials about certain requirements and they almost always blame Health & Safety, the EU or gdrp.
I do try to check this now because they are often lazy / lame excuses with a faint whiff of truth somewhere. If Boris was recounting such experiences that people had told him [which is quite likely], then he was guilty of not checking rather then lying.

Obviously there are occasions when the EU is used as a scapegoat but I believe in the majority of cases they are at the route of the problem.
The UK has been fined literally £billions by the EU. Is it any wonder that the UK gold plates and extends its interpretation of rules set by Brussels in order to avoid falling foul of its higher powers?
 

SFI - What % were you taking out of production?

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  • 25-50%

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  • 50-75%

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    Votes: 3 1.6%
  • 100% I’ve had enough of farming!

    Votes: 6 3.2%

Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

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As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
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