If the £ falls 25%

[hally]

I wonder if farmers haven’t collaborated because, to be blunt, they haven’t had to. This may not be the case in the future so I have no doubt that if they have to come together to survive.....they will.

 

[ollie989898]

I wonder if farmers haven’t collaborated because, to be blunt, they haven’t had to. This may not be the case in the future so I have no doubt that if they have to come together to survive.....they will.

There is that factor, plus geography, plus the insulating effect of being confined in their home markets/EU subsidy or tariff regimes etc, also perhaps personal pride and self reliance are factors. I can think of few other industries where cooperation would so readily be implemented.

 

[Pieces_of_Eight]

The answer has to be in large co-ops as they have in the continent, some of them in Germany literally own or perform everything in house, from seed production, fertiliser purchasing right through to buying the crop, processing it, packaging it and marketing it. It must be the only way forward if the global marketplace becomes the defacto playing field and margins remain as thin as they are.

Who currently ends up with the biggest slice of the pie?

Grower? Merchant? Processor(s)? Retailer?

Where all the links in the chain are farmer owned, there must be enormous potential, as long as efficiencies are maintained.

 

[unlacedgecko]

Have the Welsh sheep on English estate turnips over winter with a local shepherd doing daily checks. It's not impossible when you think about it. I'm sure a well travelled man like @unlacedgecko would have a more educated & experienced view. The old stratification system of mountain ewes crossing with ever more meaty rams as they came down to the lowlands seemed to work ok.

Thanks for the tag. Anyone can collaborate with anyone so long as both parties are willing. Welsh hill farmer, English landed gentry with huge estate or contract shepherd, we all sh!t through the same hole.

Tack sheep over winter work well if they fit with the cropping schedule/other land use. If estates wish for livestock on a more permanent basis then contract/share farming options are available, but they must be suitably lucrative (see below).

Collaboration is about sharing risk and reward, creating synergies from combined efforts, to result in benefits for all those who contribute.

This is the main reason why collaboration with large estates doesn't happen. In my limited experience the estate (or rather the agent) wants a hefty share of the reward for non of the risk.

I looked at a share farm opportunity last year. Large arable and veg estate. Anything not suitable put into HLS. They were losing money with mules and Red Devon cattle.

They wanted someone to come in a farm the HLS, within HLS restrictions for none of the sub. They would then take 50% of the profit from you for the pleasure.

House available at local market rate. Extra land could be rented from the arable enterprise on 1 year leys for £150/acre.

It was a complete non starter for me. Invest £40k+ in livestock to make less company profit than an employed shepherd gets paid.

I'm sure there are other more lucrative opportunities out there.

I'll keep looking.

 

[ollie989898]

Who currently ends up with the biggest slice of the pie?

Grower? Merchant? Processor(s)? Retailer?

Where all the links in the chain are farmer owned, there must be enormous potential, as long as efficiencies are maintained.

I cannot answer that question as I would be guessing, but I believe if the collective margins of the grower, processor and merchant are gathered up, along with the margins made on the supply of seed or fertiliser or the like, then it should add up to a very useful percentage, and more importantly that chain and all monies moved within would retain that cash more readily. It also, usefully, effectively means every farmer-owner is heavily diversified as his income from shareholdings or dividends is accumulated from many sectors and many different activities. This makes the proposition rather different from (just for example) the activities of a traditional grain store cooperative model.

Of course such a business model is a direct competitor and threat to established big businesses owned by external shareholders, it would also require top management at all levels with a serious commercial focus and actual backing from it's farmer customers, these three factors don't ever seem to converge properly in the UK.

 

[ollie989898]

Thanks for the tag. Anyone can collaborate with anyone so long as both parties are willing. Welsh hill farmer, English landed gentry with huge estate or contract shepherd, we all sh!t through the same hole.

Tack sheep over winter work well if they fit with the cropping schedule/other land use. If estates wish for livestock on a more permanent basis then contract/share farming options are available, but they must be suitably lucrative (see below).



This is the main reason why collaboration with large estates doesn't happen. In my limited experience the estate (or rather the agent) wants a hefty share of the reward for non of the risk.

I looked at a share farm opportunity last year. Large arable and veg estate. Anything not suitable put into HLS. They were losing money with mules and Red Devon cattle.

They wanted someone to come in a farm the HLS, within HLS restrictions for none of the sub. They would then take 50% of the profit from you for the pleasure.

House available at local market rate. Extra land could be rented from the arable enterprise on 1 year leys for £150/acre.

It was a complete non starter for me. Invest £40k+ in livestock to make less company profit than an employed shepherd gets paid.

I'm sure there are other more lucrative opportunities out there.

I'll keep looking.

All the more reason that people like you stand to benefit when subsidies are removed.

When the cold harsh reality of economics slaps them in the face, and the £200 just for passing go no longer lands in the post, folk are going to have to wise up to the fact that if they are poor at making a living out of using the land, they are gonna go cold and hungry.

They won't pay crazy fees to agents any more. They won't get crazy offers for land rents unless people can see a business case for doing so and they will be waaaaaay more inclined to go outside the old boys network and explore all their options with ventures with people like yourself.

Of course, if you want to stop messing around with sheep and move down here, I am sure I could find the right place for you to go if you don't mind being around cow tails.

 

[unlacedgecko]

All the more reason that people like you stand to benefit when subsidies are removed.

When the cold harsh reality of economics slaps them in the face, and the £200 just for passing go no longer lands in the post, folk are going to have to wise up to the fact that if they are poor at making a living out of using the land, they are gonna go cold and hungry.

They won't pay crazy fees to agents any more. They won't get crazy offers for land rents unless people can see a business case for doing so and they will be waaaaaay more inclined to go outside the old boys network and explore all their options with ventures with people like yourself.

Of course, if you want to stop messing around with sheep and move down here, I am sure I could find the right place for you to go if you don't mind being around cow tails.

I will call you tonight.

 

[hally]

Thanks for the tag. Anyone can collaborate with anyone so long as both parties are willing. Welsh hill farmer, English landed gentry with huge estate or contract shepherd, we all sh!t through the same hole.

Tack sheep over winter work well if they fit with the cropping schedule/other land use. If estates wish for livestock on a more permanent basis then contract/share farming options are available, but they must be suitably lucrative (see below).



This is the main reason why collaboration with large estates doesn't happen. In my limited experience the estate (or rather the agent) wants a hefty share of the reward for non of the risk.

I looked at a share farm opportunity last year. Large arable and veg estate. Anything not suitable put into HLS. They were losing money with mules and Red Devon cattle.

They wanted someone to come in a farm the HLS, within HLS restrictions for none of the sub. They would then take 50% of the profit from you for the pleasure.

House available at local market rate. Extra land could be rented from the arable enterprise on 1 year leys for £150/acre.

It was a complete non starter for me. Invest £40k+ in livestock to make less company profit than an employed shepherd gets paid.

I'm sure there are other more lucrative opportunities out there.

I'll keep looking.

It’s called having your cake and eating it. A common problem when a land agent gets involved.
A businessman bought a small farm down the road from me , rang last year to see if I would top the place as his grazer had let him down. So I went to see the job, he asked if I would be interested in renting the spot and as we were low on crop this year I said OK but as it’s in a really s**t state and in full stewardship offered a token rent. Off he went to the land agent to get a contract drawn up and come back wanting 80/ acre despite it being covered in nettles, no fencing and no water, he would keep all payments and wanted extra for grazing in the winter. I said fair enough I’ll just bill for the work done

 

[fudge]

you've lost me........

Oh sorry I was under the mistaken impression that you worked for Frontier.

 

[ollie989898]

I will call you tonight.

I must warn you though, they are an odd bunch these natives. Hill-dwelling arm draggers or swamp-swimming paddle-handers, nothing in between.

 

[unlacedgecko]

I must warn you though, they are an odd bunch these natives. Hill-dwelling arm draggers or swamp-swimming paddle-handers, nothing in between.

You've not met me yet! I'm known locally as the mud covered wierdo in shorts who smells of dead sheep and wet dog.

 

[Grain Buyer]

Oh sorry I was under the mistaken impression that you worked for Frontier.

 

[hally]

You've not met me yet! I'm known locally as the mud covered wierdo in shorts who smells of dead sheep and wet dog.

Ah you must be a long lost cousin, the similarity to me is uncanny ( well except for the shorts of course)

 

[unlacedgecko]

Ah you must be a long lost cousin, the similarity to me is uncanny ( well except for the shorts of course)

If you drank in Newcastle 35 yrs ago you could be my dad

 

[hally]

If you drank in Newcastle 35 yrs ago you could be my dad

I went to college at Ponteland in 83 so near enough

 

[Brisel]

Thanks for the tag. Anyone can collaborate with anyone so long as both parties are willing. Welsh hill farmer, English landed gentry with huge estate or contract shepherd, we all sh!t through the same hole.

Tack sheep over winter work well if they fit with the cropping schedule/other land use. If estates wish for livestock on a more permanent basis then contract/share farming options are available, but they must be suitably lucrative (see below).



This is the main reason why collaboration with large estates doesn't happen. In my limited experience the estate (or rather the agent) wants a hefty share of the reward for non of the risk.

I looked at a share farm opportunity last year. Large arable and veg estate. Anything not suitable put into HLS. They were losing money with mules and Red Devon cattle.

They wanted someone to come in a farm the HLS, within HLS restrictions for none of the sub. They would then take 50% of the profit from you for the pleasure.

House available at local market rate. Extra land could be rented from the arable enterprise on 1 year leys for £150/acre.

It was a complete non starter for me. Invest £40k+ in livestock to make less company profit than an employed shepherd gets paid.

I'm sure there are other more lucrative opportunities out there.

I'll keep looking.

Has anyone else taken that "opportunity" yet?

I haven't forgotten about you since that last time we spoke. We're just defining our longer term grazing "strategy" at the moment & have 2 graziers here already, plus another local sheep farmer who takes my turnip grazing. Still trying to educate the agents

 

[Grass And Grain]

Would love to share machinery with some neighbours, but most have blackgrass.

I just daren't do it. Might cost me too much in the long term. Shame.

 

[Brisel]

There was a local joint venture farming operation that ceased recently. There were about 10 farmers in together with all costs and all income pooled over a few thousand acres. A fleet of modern but well worked tackle. If one farm got all their crop cut wet then the drying bill was shared out evenly. It seemed to work well for a long time & I just can't quite understand why it packed up just as we need to be doing more like this. Every member still wanted their farm done first

 

[unlacedgecko]

Has anyone else taken that "opportunity" yet?

I haven't forgotten about you since that last time we spoke. We're just defining our longer term grazing "strategy" at the moment & have 2 graziers here already, plus another local sheep farmer who takes my turnip grazing. Still trying to educate the agents

Yes I believe someone took it back in Feb.

Once they’re sufficiently educated, you know where I am!

 

[Brisel]

Yes I believe someone took it back in Feb.

Once they’re sufficiently educated, you know where I am!