If you tell lies you'll get caught out eventually

FarmerDanny1989

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Scotland
I really do feel sorry for all the honest breeders out there affected by yet another big mess caused by the society. I can only imagine there can only be more cover ups. A thousand odd pedigree animals now worth commercial money. People put there hard working money and time into the society to get the rug pulled from under there feet. Something needs to be done!
I can only see members now loosing faith in the society and them holding dispersals sales!!
We have used Limousin bulls for 15 years + as a main terminal sire on the farm but I won’t be purchasing another for sure!!!
 
I really do feel sorry for all the honest breeders out there affected by yet another big mess caused by the society. I can only imagine there can only be more cover ups. A thousand odd pedigree animals now worth commercial money. People put there hard working money and time into the society to get the rug pulled from under there feet. Something needs to be done!
I can only see members now loosing faith in the society and them holding dispersals sales!!
We have used Limousin bulls for 15 years + as a main terminal sire on the farm but I won’t be purchasing another for sure!!!
Why won't you buy another?
 

neilo

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Montgomeryshire
I really do feel sorry for all the honest breeders out there affected by yet another big mess caused by the society. I can only imagine there can only be more cover ups. A thousand odd pedigree animals now worth commercial money. People put there hard working money and time into the society to get the rug pulled from under there feet. Something needs to be done!
I can only see members now loosing faith in the society and them holding dispersals sales!!
We have used Limousin bulls for 15 years + as a main terminal sire on the farm but I won’t be purchasing another for sure!!!

Why is this one ‘caused by the Society’? From the limited information released, it seems to have been down to someone that illegally imported semen, which trading standards & DEFRA have finally caught up with. The importer will have known that he was sailing close to the wind (being charitable).
The Society is surely just trying to deal with the fallout, and likely trying to avoid a repeat of the Jaegerbomb fiasco.
 

juke

Member
BASE UK Member
Location
DURHAM
I really do feel sorry for all the honest breeders out there affected by yet another big mess caused by the society. I can only imagine there can only be more cover ups. A thousand odd pedigree animals now worth commercial money. People put there hard working money and time into the society to get the rug pulled from under there feet. Something needs to be done!
I can only see members now loosing faith in the society and them holding dispersals sales!!
We have used Limousin bulls for 15 years + as a main terminal sire on the farm but I won’t be purchasing another for sure!!!
Now all you need is a good Charolais bull, easy calving, fast growth,fast finishing,
 

Agrivator

Member
Or a Simmental that will do all of the above, have daughters that will milk and be a grand cheaper too buy 🤣
The simmental stores and finished cattle are cheaper too once you get out of Scotland too for some reason which is beyond me,

In Scotland, it takes an extremely good Simmental bull to produce crossbred store cattle or fat cattle (sold live) to make as much as even average Limousin crosses.

One reason is that Simmentals are far behind Limousins in KO% and in meat : bone ratio, but there is no doubt that the Simmental has much to offer as a maternal breed.

And the Limousin has the advantage of being a very homogenous breed, compared to the Simmental which has a much more diverse background.
 
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som farmer

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
somerset
The simmental stores and finished cattle are cheaper too once you get out of Scotland too for some reason which is beyond me,
when we used to buy calves in, sims never gave the same return as others, and l stopped buying them, for that reason. We are in a large dairying area, and l put the reason for the sims, not being so good, as dairy farmers were using either simx bulls, or cheap badly bred pure sims, the simx, would produce a good looking calf, as sweep up bulls, in their herds. Now we are back into dairying, we have a 3/4 bred hfrd bull, to run as a sweeper. The % of cows conceiving to AI, is high, those that don't 'hold' to AI usually have a 'problem'. We do have decent hfrd bulls, which we put cows to, after AI, but before the sweeper goes in, and they run with the hfrs. A really decent beef bull, is not cheap, and running them with the herd, accidents can, and do happen, and a lot of money can easily be lost..
 

FarmerDanny1989

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Scotland
Why is this one ‘caused by the Society’? From the limited information released, it seems to have been down to someone that illegally imported semen, which trading standards & DEFRA have finally caught up with. The importer will have known that he was sailing close to the wind (being charitable).
The Society is surely just trying to deal with the fallout, and likely trying to avoid a repeat of the Jaegerbomb fiasco.
Well who let the Jacot calves become a pedigree status? THE LIMOUSIN SOCIETY! Who then let a 1000 plus progeny then also get a pedigree status and all while reaping up the money! I’m sure not one of these breeders will receive money back for them loosing the pedigree status and all the thousands that’s been invested into there progeny. This is just like Jaegerbomb all over again was a red flag a few years ago but still let calves be registered. And who will loose out all the hard working innocent breeders.
 

FarmerDanny1989

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Scotland
Why won't you buy another?
Too much false things like buying a bull with said amazing figures easy calving low birth weights etc and for them then to average a 50-60KG calf each time. There breeding them more like a Belgian blue now a days which is spoiling them and there temperaments well let’s not go there. I actually have a blue bull who I can put to any heifer on my farm and I know will calve with ease but I couldn’t with any of my lims unfortunately. It’s a shame because they have been a big part of our breeding programme here.
 
In Scotland, it takes an extremely good Simmental bull to produce crossbred store cattle or fat cattle (sold live) to make as much as even average Limousin crosses.

One reason is that Simmentals are far behind Limousins in KO% and in meat : bone ratio, but there is no doubt that the Simmental has much to offer as a maternal breed.

And the Limousin has the advantage of being a very homogenous breed, compared to the Simmental which has a much more diverse background.
That really is great, and although I could start a list of down sides to Lims and reasons why I moved away from them, my post was originally just a joke to follow on from @juke's , not a breed slanging match.

The thread was started to show the crooked breeders up for what they are and how they are now being clamped down on.
 
Iv two boys here only started with them 2 years ago, I might buy another from Stirling in Feb as they are very consistent breeders and there calf’s do finish better than the Lims.
Gonna head to Carlisle on Friday see if I can pick up a Blue bull or two.
We had a blue bull years ago and the calves off him were massive when born. Too many ceasars and bad calving he had to go and we paid a fair bit for him at the time.
I know they are much better now finer legged and so forth. What or who do you look for as far as easy calving with these blues?
 

neilo

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Montgomeryshire
Well who let the Jacot calves become a pedigree status? THE LIMOUSIN SOCIETY! Who then let a 1000 plus progeny then also get a pedigree status and all while reaping up the money! I’m sure not one of these breeders will receive money back for them loosing the pedigree status and all the thousands that’s been invested into there progeny. This is just like Jaegerbomb all over again was a red flag a few years ago but still let calves be registered. And who will loose out all the hard working innocent breeders.

I doubt the Society knew the semen wasn’t brought in legitimately, so why shouldn’t they register the offspring, the same as they do for anything else got by imported semen or embryos?

This looks to have come to light because Trading Standards/DEFRA have been made aware of the semen coming in, presumably under the radar. They certainly wouldn’t have been aware of it at the time, unless they’d stopped the car that had a semen shipper in the boot (or however it may have been done🤐). More likely from a ‘friend’ reporting it well after the fact.

The Society is just reacting to it now, after DEFRA have intervened.
 

Top Tip.

Member
Location
highland
I doubt the Society knew the semen wasn’t brought in legitimately, so why shouldn’t they register the offspring, the same as they do for anything else got by imported semen or embryos?

This looks to have come to light because Trading Standards/DEFRA have been made aware of the semen coming in, presumably under the radar. They certainly wouldn’t have been aware of it at the time, unless they’d stopped the car that had a semen shipper in the boot (or however it may have been done🤐). More likely from a ‘friend’ reporting it well after the fact.

The Society is just reacting to it now, after DEFRA have intervened.
Would there not have been some official protocols the semen would have to go through before it could be offered for sale. I know nothing about semen importation but I find it strange that a random can offer semen for sale without the paperwork to back it up.
 

neilo

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Montgomeryshire
Would there not have been some official protocols the semen would have to go through before it could be offered for sale. I know nothing about semen importation but I find it strange that a random can offer semen for sale without the paperwork to back it up.

All of the suspended animals were on one farm, so was the problem from semen which was ever offered for sale? It’s perfectly easy to drive to France (or wherever) with a liquid nitrogen shipping flask in the boot of your car, put some French semen in it, then drive home without declaring anything to anyone.

Given the blue tongue situation I would imagine, from France, the bull would have to been tested free before semen was collected for legitimate export? Maybe semen was collected and ok for domestic use, but not to export spec? The guy selling it in France wouldn’t have been doing anything wrong, just whoever would have brought it over under the radar…… if that is what happened of course. We don’t know if that was the case, just supposition.

I had a Chinese gentleman enquire about some ram semen last year. There is no export health certificate for China, but he suggested he could supply a shipper and transport it over himself. All I would have to do was supply the product. It didn’t go ahead, but easy to see how such things can happen if the will is there.🤐
 
All of the suspended animals were on one farm, so was the problem from semen which was ever offered for sale? It’s perfectly easy to drive to France (or wherever) with a liquid nitrogen shipping flask in the boot of your car, put some French semen in it, then drive home without declaring anything to anyone.

Given the blue tongue situation I would imagine, from France, the bull would have to been tested free before semen was collected for legitimate export? Maybe semen was collected and ok for domestic use, but not to export spec? The guy selling it in France wouldn’t have been doing anything wrong, just whoever would have brought it over under the radar…… if that is what happened of course. We don’t know if that was the case, just supposition.

I had a Chinese gentleman enquire about some ram semen last year. There is no export health certificate for China, but he suggested he could supply a shipper and transport it over himself. All I would have to do was supply the product. It didn’t go ahead, but easy to see how such things can happen if the will is there.🤐
Sum Ting Wong or Ho Lee.Fuk?
 
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All of the suspended animals were on one farm, so was the problem from semen which was ever offered for sale? It’s perfectly easy to drive to France (or wherever) with a liquid nitrogen shipping flask in the boot of your car, put some French semen in it, then drive home without declaring anything to anyone.

Given the blue tongue situation I would imagine, from France, the bull would have to been tested free before semen was collected for legitimate export? Maybe semen was collected and ok for domestic use, but not to export spec? The guy selling it in France wouldn’t have been doing anything wrong, just whoever would have brought it over under the radar…… if that is what happened of course. We don’t know if that was the case, just supposition.

I had a Chinese gentleman enquire about some ram semen last year. There is no export health certificate for China, but he suggested he could supply a shipper and transport it over himself. All I would have to do was supply the product. It didn’t go ahead, but easy to see how such things can happen if the will is there.🤐
I don't know about sheep semen, but cattle semen is very difficult to get Cattle semen into China from the UK.
So much so they have been buying dozens of bulls over the past couple of years and taking them Italy for collection and exporting the semen from there.

So I'd guess your China man is somewhat lacking in either knowledge or experience and that's why it didn't happen.
 

neilo

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Montgomeryshire
I don't know about sheep semen, but cattle semen is very difficult to get Cattle semen into China from the UK.
So much so they have been buying dozens of bulls over the past couple of years and taking them Italy for collection and exporting the semen from there.

So I'd guess your China man is somewhat lacking in either knowledge or experience and that's why it didn't happen.

No. There is no EHC in place for ovine semen or embryos from the uk into China. That means that there is no way it can be done (legitimately) as there is just no agreed framework in place to dictate what health testing, etc would be needed. It’s not a case of not being able to meet them, they have not been discussed between govts.
Thanks to the shambles that is Brexit, we haven’t been able to export breeding sheep to the EU, or even through it, as there are no control points over the channel yet. Even if there was an ovine EHC between EU and China, we couldn’t get anything to the EU either.

His answer would have been to buy some semen here, put into his shipper, then disappear it into a shipping container full of something I suppose. I would be selling it in good faith, but he obviously wasn’t too concerned about any regs.🤐
 

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