If you tell lies you'll get caught out eventually

[Nithsdale]

How did the de-registered Jagerbomb progeny sell?

Sorry if I've missed it.

We were talking about the Homebyres dispersal, not the Jagerbomb progeny sale.

You replied the @M-J-G post where he asked specifically about the Jaegerbomb stock...

 

[Northeastfarmer]

Check the archived catalogue on the H&H website. None of the bulls was by Jagerbomb.

They were

 

[M-J-G]

She's getting flushed to produce good commercial bulls. The owners like a show calf as well

Plenty of show calves are born off cows that cost a lot less than 4k.

Come to think of it a lot of good pedigree commercial bulls are bred off cows that cost less than 4k and you at least get the option to register them and get full use of performance recording for what it's worth.

Plus half of the calves will just be commercial heifers

 

[noagain]

Plenty of show calves are born off cows that cost a lot less than 4k.

Come to think of it a lot of good pedigree commercial bulls are bred off cows that cost less than 4k and you at least get the option to register them and get full use of performance recording for what it's worth.

Plus half of the calves will just be commercial heifers

He's single, got a decent job doesn't do curling or golf, if you know what I'm implying

 

[M-J-G]

 

[M-J-G]

Won't a lot of these cattle be de-registered

 

[Northeastfarmer]

View attachment 853248

Someone just rang me about this....can’t believe it

 

[Purli R]

Thats very sad,hope they have a good sale.

 

[Purli R]

Won't a lot of these cattle be de-registered

Did they not sell them before christmas?

 

[Ysgythan]

All breed societies need to get their house in order or DNA testing will do it for them. On the other hand when Tesco sell horse in lasagne it makes you wonder why we’re so prissy about breeds.

 

[Whitepeak]

All breed societies need to get their house in order or DNA testing will do it for them. On the other hand when Tesco sell horse in lasagne it makes you wonder why we’re so prissy about breeds.

Are breed societies just admitting they know there is a problem if they need to parentage check every animal registered?? If it isn't a wide spread issue surely random calf inspections will suffice??

 

[Ysgythan]

Are breed societies just admitting they know there is a problem if they need to parentage check every animal registered?? If it isn't a wide spread issue surely random calf inspections will suffice??

it’s a circular argument. It may not be a widespread issue because nobody is routinely testing. Nobody is routinely testing because it doesn’t seem to be a widespread issue.

The entire system runs on the honesty, competence, paperwork and the fences of breeders. Doubtless the vast majority is right, some is wrong due to genuine mistakes and there’s the odd occasion where it’s deliberate.

For those who record or want recorded stock that can be a problem as so much depends on linkages. There is an inbuilt feedback if a ram is sold to recorded flocks due to the impact of recording the progeny, but you could argue by then the damage is done.

When scrapie genotyping came in that exposed a few less than brilliant record keepers. With DNA testing being what it is the societies can if they want tackle flock/herd book integrity once and for all.

 

[neilo]

it’s a circular argument. It may not be a widespread issue because nobody is routinely testing. Nobody is routinely testing because it doesn’t seem to be a widespread issue.

The entire system runs on the honesty, competence, paperwork and the fences of breeders. Doubtless the vast majority is right, some is wrong due to genuine mistakes and there’s the odd occasion where it’s deliberate.

For those who record or want recorded stock that can be a problem as so much depends on linkages. There is an inbuilt feedback if a ram is sold to recorded flocks due to the impact of recording the progeny, but you could argue by then the damage is done.

When scrapie genotyping came in that exposed a few less than brilliant record keepers. With DNA testing being what it is the societies can if they want tackle flock/herd book integrity once and for all.

Whilst I agree with the sentiment, DNA testing everything loads a lot of expense on the job, which needs to be recovered from animals that are sold via increased prices. Meanwhile, farmers buy crossbred stock, AberLogieEasyWotsits, and deregistered limy bulls......

 

[Ysgythan]

Whilst I agree with the sentiment, DNA testing everything loads a lot of expense on the job, which needs to be recovered from animals that are sold via increased prices. Meanwhile, farmers buy crossbred stock, AberLogieEasyWotsits, and deregistered limy bulls......

I agree and it’s been a case of prioritising. With the technology available it now must be a deliberate choice not to look too hard. DNA testing everything looks expensive and over the top...until something goes wrong.

Some societies are charities whose aims include preserving flock book integrity. Would you want to be a CEO or Secretary explaining to the Charity Commission why you chose not to test anything when the technology to protect the integrity of the flock book was there, not even random testing?

I’d be worried that some scandal or other leads to a snowball effect. Some societies have at least tried to protect themselves by requiring samples of registered stock to be taken and stored, but not necessarily tested. It’s easy to see in a breakdown how there’d be a huge one off cost of going through those and cross testing progeny.

I suppose making such decisions is why some of them are paid huge salaries.

 

[Gulli]

Whilst I agree with the sentiment, DNA testing everything loads a lot of expense on the job, which needs to be recovered from animals that are sold via increased prices. Meanwhile, farmers buy crossbred stock, AberLogieEasyWotsits, and deregistered limy bulls......

Breed societies look after themselves. Prices don't ever go down for registrations etc! I can sort of see a justification if you have a branded beef schme like herefords do.
Just now while the beef price has been in its arse is possibly not the best time to tell all your members you are increasing costs again though.

 

[Ysgythan]

Breed societies look after themselves. Prices don't ever go down for registrations etc! I can sort of see a justification if you have a branded beef schme like herefords do.
Just now while the beef price has been in its arse is possibly not the best time to tell all your members you are increasing costs again though.

I can only speak of the society I’m a member of, and they have huge reserves for a rainy day. Somebody should tell them it’s picking...

 

[honeyend]

I have no idea why people think that DNA testing is expensive, its been happaning in horse and dog stud books for years. https://www.ahtdnatesting.co.uk/equine-other/
Registered sires also have to be tested for genetic diseases before registration.

 

[Ysgythan]

I have no idea why people think that DNA testing is expensive, its been happaning in horse and dog stud books for years. https://www.ahtdnatesting.co.uk/equine-other/
Registered sires also have to be tested for genetic diseases before registration.

Any registration linked cost is expensive. We are farmers. I am surprised some of the bigger societies don’t broker a bulk order discount though.

 

[matthew]

Any registration linked cost is expensive. We are farmers. I am surprised some of the bigger societies don’t broker a bulk order discount though.

So am I. By the time you’ve paid a Society membership fee, plus a fee to register a calf, plus DNA sample, plus genetic screen for terminal sires, that is one very expensive calf,
But, if the integrity of the breed is to be maintained then it’s necessary. Bulk buying would be welcome.
And I forgot royalty fees. ?

 

[Ysgythan]

So am I. By the time you’ve paid a Society membership fee, plus a fee to register a calf, plus DNA sample, plus genetic screen for terminal sires, that is one very expensive calf,
But, if the integrity of the breed is to be maintained then it’s necessary. Bulk buying would be welcome.
And I forgot royalty fees. ?

Funnily enough this was always the reason to take those fees. So what have we paid for?